There's a lot of disagreement about whether or not sales quotas are good or bad for salespeople. It really all comes down to personality and communication. Our newest episode breaks down who needs them, how to talk about them, and how it affects mindsets and other aspects of selling.
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While not everybody has one, sales quotas are pretty common in one form or another in almost every company. And for some, this is a good thing. For others, it's bad news!
Sales quotas can be extremely motivating when communicated and supported correctly. But they can also cause mountains of stress and pressure that end up demotivating the team if they're not delivered well or if they're unreasonable.
This is one of those areas where personality has a huge impact on how you deal with and feel about quotas. Some people need them, some people take them as a challenge, and some people don't need the specifics.
It all comes down to communication, on both sides!
That's why, as a sales leader, it's so important to know your team and their personalities and sources of motivation. If you don't, text us. We'll talk to you about getting DISC personality assessments for your team.
Finally, this is the last new episode of 2020. We know it's been a crazy year, but your support has helped us get through it, and we hope we've helped you too!
Happy Holidays and Happy New Year! Let's all get ready to crush 2021!
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Let's get ready to Throwdown!
Welcome to the show everybody. We are back, Sales Throwdown. If you're watching on YouTube, it's just a matter of time until Clint's lights go out, and he's pissed off about it again. So we're talking this time about quotas, right? It's the we're coming up on the end of the year, a lot of people are taking time to plan in December that way, they're ready to go in January. And we wanted to talk a little bit about quotas, right? Because everybody's got a different view of it. For some people, it's really nice, because you have the clarity about what you're trying to do. Some of these companies they don't even give you a quota anymore, which is sounds great, but I think is more terrifying than it is anything else? And, you know, how do you how do we think about it? How do we feel about it? How do you handle it yourself? Right? So Clint works at a pretty large company, right? And they're theirs. They're publicly traded. And he's got a huge goal, right? I mean, do you ever think about that number and get demotivated? Is it is it always just, like, not a problem? I'm gonna crush this thing? How does that work?
Um, yeah, so personality plays a lot into this one, especially as a, like a high corner D, I just, I always want to shoot for the moon. And I always think that, hey, there's no goal unachievable. And I will tell you that coming into the, where it always hits me is the the motivation side is the fourth quarter, right. Because if you're not at your goal of where you should be at the end of the third quarter, you can't even imagine you have to make up now in the worst quarter, to sell anything in my opinion. Now, I've got to make up this extra, plus motivate not only myself, but my entire sales team and everybody on board. And this goes all the way down to the guy installing the equipment that we sell. He all he sees, or all they see is Thanksgiving, Christmas end of the year, I just I you know, I'm just ready to take a break. This is the time I go skiing every year. So not only is your sales cycle increased, or your sales quota increased, but now everybody along the way is getting losing sight of the you know, of the goal. So it is super frustrating to try to keep everybody motivated. And yeah, it does. It plays a toll. I think everybody gets stressed out, I can see it up and down the hallways every single day of people having having that end of the year kind of panic attack, so to speak, you know, where people have to start answering for what they did all year.
You don't think that that's just like proximity to you. And they're and they're stressed out that they're just close to you.
That could be. Yeah, no, no doubt. I mean, Hey, I know that was a joke. But there's a lot of serious in that because the last thing that you want to be around with me is is where I'm where I'm stressed out, you know, because I'm gonna I wear my heart on my sleeve. I, I openly put it we talked about all the times like Oh, man, what's Clint pissed off, it's already it's only 7:30 in the morning, he's pissed off. And I see that effect, right. And that's where you know, that's why I say personality plays huge into this. Because not only do you have to control yourself and your emotions and the way you do business, because that affects every single person around whether you're at the bottom of the food chain or at the top. Because if you're at the top and you're trying to motivate your your people to get going and you see no motivation at the bottom, it will rub into, it'll get you in and it will hit you places maybe you don't feel the rest of the year. So yeah, end of the year motivation, hidden quotas and goals. I mean, the proofs in the pudding was sales numbers or numbers, and you can't make them lie for you. So the end of the year is tough man. Beginning of the year, it's all that, shit I got a whole year to sell this stuff. Right. But the silver is tough.
You said something in there that that I'm curious about? You said any goal is achievable. Right. So if they came so so can you share what your quota was this year?
Yeah. 24, 24
Okay, so if it came back dollars,
I wish. $24 bro, man I got next year covered.
Pull out the Benjamins.
If they had come to you. So if they come to you in January, and they say Clint, great job, man. Great job. Great job. New quota. 75. Right. Yep. Is that just like the that gut driven, that you know what I'm gonna hit it. Just Just get the hell out of my way kind of thing.
Mine. I think every year that I'm in this business, that becomes that that gets sucked out of me that want to hit that set. Like if they increase it by triple like that. Every year that I'm in this business and I see the realistic side of what is achievable and what is not what's realistic and what is not. That does get sucked out of me year after year. Not in a bad way but more of a realistic, professional way. Right? Hey, okay, you say that you know that. So maybe three or four years ago and I said you got it, chief, I'm on it. And then that would have been my response. And I would have done everything I could and we would have hit 60 million and somebody would have played that to me, Look, man, we were really just thinking 30 million, but man, you did 60. And that works for a while. But then if you they start seeing that your capabilities, everybody has a limit. There's no doubt about that. Just because you're only one person, right? And you just can't handle that much stuff in one year. It's just almost impossible on it. There's only so much time in a day to deal with certain things and how much of the other business starts to fail because you're not paying attention to it because you did...
Agreed, agreed. And you give up something to get something right. Yeah, it's a balancing act there.
So so for me nowadays, when somebody tells me Oh, well, I know how to play the Clint's card. See, I'm just gonna tell them go get it. And that's his attitude. Now I kind of have a little more professional curiosity and enough knowledge in the industry to say okay, well hey, typical companies like to grow at about 16% that's a healthy growth rate from this many million dollars in that there's that freakin light.
Dude, let's get this is getting comical, right? I just not I snotted myself at 56 years old, like I'm in seventh grade. And I'm drinking chocolate milk, right? I'm like, man.
Any best reason?
Instant ears red instant.
Every time every
Clint,. I'm so glad it's you and not me. Cuz you'd be calling me you would be 10 feet up my ass over it.
The shit talk would be legendary.
So I'm, can I.
Yeah, please, right, like I mean, as an S, right? When you get a goal is a motivating as a de motivating? Are there certain other limits to that? How does that how does that work for you down there in the S.
I'm about to be 60, I've been my very first sales job. And I can add, I've told the story before but I remember. I'm out there. And this was before you could Google map you know, I have the little map and I'm like,
Mapso.
And I'm like, I'm gonna kill it. I'm gonna so kill this. I didn't have a quota, my boss didn't say, Nan, I need you. I was like, Oh, this is so exciting. I'm going to go out. So how many years later? 30 years later? I'm the same thing. I don't have a quota. I have motivation. Like what the hell? I don't do scuse my language, but I do not understand. And I need someone to explain to me and I'm sure I'll get it but, quota, that's so dumb. Like, I don't understand. That is so ridiculous. You go out and you kill it to the best of your ability. And now I just like it's so stupid. To me, it is the dumbest thing like a quota I if you're a weak and if you're like, I've got to have this goal, I don't have to have a goal. I have to have, I, I don't i want to succeed, I want to be successful I want to do. It doesn't matter. If If Al tells me, Nannette, you know what if you can't bring in $2 million, next, you know, next month, then and I'm gonna be like, well, hell, if I can bring in $2 million. I'm, I'm going to do it. It's not because you've told me to go wait. That doesn't make any sense to me. So I'm not a good person to ask this question to. I either I try every time. I want to go, I want to do my best. So why does someone need to be told an amount to get off their lazy or hold? Oh, wait, what is it?
Well, back up a little. Lazy?
So Nan, I I do agree with you a lot because I even get to the point where I hate commissions for I don't even like the commission structures because I think you're hired to do a job which is selling and you should sell and we should pay you accordingly. I've mentioned that many times. So. So to that point, I understand what your thought process and by no means is these following statements shitting on you, but I will punch holes in it because most people will. I know John's just salivating over there.
I have a lot of thoughts on this topic.
So so I'll say this. One of the things is you can't you can't project as a business owner or a sales leader. Go get it. You just can't project it. You don't know what growth is, you don't know what somebody's potential is until you set the bar somewhere to see where they fall in that mix. And it doesn't have to be and I always say this goals have to be achievable for everybody. It's different, right? Every company It's different. You can't tell one guy that sells really well, Hey, your quote is 50 million and tell somebody else that's not doing as well, Hey, your goal is also 50 million. Because that's not achievable. Right? It's not a realistic goal.
That's the question. Okay, so the guy that you have identified as it is, he is capable of 50 million. Right? So if you didn't give him the goal of 50 million, then he wouldn't have done it. I don't get it.
Um, no, it's more of it's more for financial. And so
So I get it. So yeah, that's it's more for it's not for the salesperson as much as
It does depends on the personality, right. So you know, if I tell John, hey, I need you to go kill it. John has no idea what that means. Now, he has absolutely no idea. I think Doc even tried that. When john worked for Doc, if I remember correctly, that I mean, Hey, I just need you to go kill it. What does kill it mean? I don't know what kill it means. So it's very personality driven? Well, yeah, that is. So let me let me put it into perspective for you guys. You two on my screens are right above each other for you two, your reaction is the exact same. John, John's reaction is the opposite way. Right? So he can't even understand what it means to not have a quota. I mean, he doesn't even...
Okay, but but I will bring Okay, so to Nan's portion of this equation of just go kill it. And I run a small business, but that business is predicated on some some some numbers called sales numbers. Right? To to cover the nut of paying all the bills, right, Nan. So you have to assign those sales. And as loosely as we do, we project what you will sell, okay, versus what I will sell versus that so that you know how to budget and where you can take your company. So from the dynamic of the backroom that doesn't sell guys, the front of the house, people like us to get out there and get on the streets, those quotas reflect our responsibility to revenue.
But that's a different question than what then what I was asked. So
Yeah, so, let me interject here because doc brought up a good point. Somebody is projecting what killing it is for Nan. Right? Doc in this scenario is all he knows if I tell them to go kill it, that means I need her to do what she always does. But there's numbers to back up what doc means to kill it. Right? And Nan, personality wise, doesn't need to know the figures and numbers because she knows what she can and can't do. And doc is banking, his business on. When I say kill it, I need you to do what you've always done. There's numbers behind all of that equation.
And Nan, you know this because you compile all those sheets of revenue, and report and give them to me. So I know how much money
That's why I go back to the statement.
You're right in the thick of all of this.
Yeah. But that were, I was asked a question. Are you motivated? Or demotivated? That's all.
I know where Nan's going? I'll be honest, this is the beauty beauty of a certain S and a certain I too, right? I know that 60,000 is better than 30,000. Right? I mean, I'll dummy down for you. Right? So what I want more than anything else is to get to 60,000. Because I've seen a $30,000 month and lived a $30,000 month and I've seen a $60,000 month. And I know that's the way that I'm in because I don't go zero ever, right? And I always prefer the higher number. So Nan and I always go, Okay, how do I get to the higher number and it works in a stupid way for people like us? That's all. Yeah.
And and I know what you mean, going back to the original question of does it motivate or demotivate you? So I totally get that it definitely.
I was answering that question.
Yeah, I absolutely understand that. You know, it has its demotivating qualities for you because of your personality traits. I mean, it of course it does. I mean, that fits you perfectly. For John, that's an achievable goal bar that he can set expectations along the way, and he can schedule this thing out, he can make 1000 spreadsheets to get there. And he can have all these little hidden goals and little tics and stuff. He needs that right. You can't tell John that go kill it, it will absolutely that that same statement that demotivates you, in one way will demotivate John in a completely different fashion.
But if you have an S and you want to talk about you talk about how you set those goals and other parameters, right, you don't use numbers necessarily. You talk it in in a small business like mine, you talk to the person in the language that they best understand, right? And if it's Nan how many you know, can we do six it you know, face to face this week, right? And you know, what does that turn it so you can turn anything into a KPI Yep, in a smart manager would they wouldn't try to fit around, you know, into squat, you know, all that kind of stuff. I don't even get the verbiage there. But I get it. You're putting something some place that doesn't belong. Giuliani But anyway, go ahead. Um,
Let's talk about John, I want to know your perspective on.
So the so the thing to remember is that all of this, you know, quote unquote effervescence and outgoingness. Like, like, this is all forced behavior for me. Like, like, I love you guys. But I can't wait to be done, seriously? with this podcast because I want to go not be around people. Right on some level. So if I don't have a if I don't have a goal to hit with the clarity around, hey, John, I need you to make, right it can be an activity goal. It can be a KPI goal, or it can be a monetary goal. But if it's a monetary goal, I need to run my process to figure out my KPIs. And I need to be like doing regularly to hit that goal. But the the idea, like the thing, the thing about working for Al whenever I worked for him before, either one of us knew any of this stuff. Was that was that line, right? I can I can hear it in my in my worst dreams. And then let's just make something happen. In like, I just, I mean, like, my blood runs cold. Just saying it out loud right now, because I'm just like, what is something? What timeline? What I mean, you know, are we talking effort? Are we talking results? Like, like, what, you know, there's so much that I don't understand about the lines of the box that I can't even start and it just causes anxiety for me.
Yeah. And I know that that statement coming from an I, my first reaction to that statement coming from especially from an I or a D. Is that, okay, so you're telling me I'm failing now?
Yeah, this is a hold on. I was about to say, in looking because I look down to see you. underneath me is a man that only wants to win. Clint is what is the win, right, Clint? Yeah. Right? Because you just simply said, Hey, that just sets me up for failure, because it's just muddled, right? No, I completely understand. So if you're if you got a sales guy, that's a D, show him what the win is, this is winning. This is not and you've won that that's a simple conversation. How can you talk to me, it gets stupid. When you talk to Nan it gets you got to put the kid gloves on. And when you talk to John, it's even the same way. What number means I won, right?
Yeah, you got to tell so so to that point, you know, just talking between like, the same thing for me and John, right. It's a number. It's a goal, right? We need that achievable bar, there is so much different between me and John in the C to the D personality on how we achieve that goal. It's not even funny, I need you to tell me that you needed me to sell $10 million. And don't ever talk to me again until December, John needs every day to have a measurable goal on why he's going to hit $10 million is completely different.
I agree. But the statement actually works out that I talked to you about winning and show you the number. I talked to John and show him the number and and we and he decides how he wins that number.
Yeah, 100%, for sure.
I mean, literally, that little phrase, there is the difference between a D and a C?
Yeah. And, and a smart. If you're, I say a smart salesman will ask that person that says any any which way. Right? Your quota is $24 million. How do you expect me to get there? Right? If you ask that question to the sales leader, I need you to get there, however you need to get there. Right? That's one answer. I've said that before. Okay. So you're leaving it to me to get to the 24 mil, or I need you to follow these majors. That's what a C leader will tell you to do. And I will just literally say, Hey, man, I don't fucking know I hired you to do this job. You know, no.
I don't think you say it like that.
No, here's what the I says is what's my expense budget to get this done?
How much entertaining can I do?
And then when you talk to when you talk to John, you say, Hey, could you plot me a course that would get us to this number, right? Or are you know, in those terms, and then to Nan, you say, How many people do you have to know and be involved with? And be you know, that part of this your equation to make this happen for you? And let's talk about weeks and months and times like that? And when you go to Clint, you say how many throats Do you need to slit? Right? Because we need 24 million next year. The blood makes sales grow better, right? And Clint's like I'm on it, man. I'm on the kill.
Yeah, I will tell you as a sales leader, I think there's no better personality, honestly on this podcast or in DISC spectrum of personalities. Then the one person that needs to be the leader in this whole deal. being motivated, demotivated when it comes to the end of the year quote is this Nan, the S's, I because typically, especially big companies, they're gonna want to throw a high corner D in there to get everybody fired up and go get it and you just do what you got to do. It's already demotivating to talk about end of the year failures are quotas to hit. The last thing anybody needs is to be just that shoved down their throat and, and forcefully, you know, you know, forcefully fed that that information. Whereas Nan is going to be more of a nurturer right is going to nurture her people to get motivated and come as a team to get something done. It's a huge misstep in a lot of leadership. I think I think people want a certain personality, because they're going to cut throats all year long. But that's not always the case. And the older I get, and the more I'm in this profession, I see where the S's definitely have their motivational role in situations like this and being motivated and demotivated for the end of the year quotas.
One thing that happens, I think a lot is, and this is coming straight out of the Jocko book, right? When you can build a plan with somebody, right and take their advice and everything. They're gonna be way more committed to working that plan that they have a voice in, than just the plan that you show up and be like, cool. I need 30 million, go get it, right. Because like, like, if you could show me like, hey, like, okay, we did 26 this year, like, what do you think you can do next year? Right? Well, you know, I mean, do you think you can do 26 again? Oh, yeah, I can totally do 26. Again, you think you could do 30? Oh, you know, maybe, okay, do you think that's a good stretch goal? When you can build that thing collaboratively? Right? Then they're going to buy in a lot harder, they're going to be a lot more committed to it, because they have a voice in it. And to, I think it was Clint's point, right? How do you want me to do this? Right? Do you want? Do you want 1000 little bitty clients? Do you want 10 really big clients who, you know, there's pressure to like, not lose anybody, like how, how do we want to build this? How do we want to get to the goal. And a lot of people that I coach, like, like who were brand new, like entrepreneurs, right? Like, like, they're just starting their businesses, and they've got these crazy goals that have no attachment to anything else. They just sound really good, right? Like, everybody that I talk to is like, it's like, well, first goal is to get to 10 grand per month. Okay, why that number? Uh... And like, there's no, there's no moat around and even big round, and you know, okay, what happens if you don't hit that in 30 days? Oh, man, I gotta figure something else out. Okay, wait a minute. How long? Have you been doing all this other stuff? Well, for years, but you're gonna give myself 30 days to make $10,000? You've never done that before. You think that that is a reasonable expectation? Yeah.
Yeah, it always goes back to with quotas and sales goals. And it's always got to be achievable. It's always got to be a realistic, because, because I'll tell you how we do it. Here is we measure backlog. So when we were planning in October for 2021, one of the first questions was, Clint, what do you think we can do next year? I think we can. I mean, I think 30 million is absolutely achievable, assuming that a lot of these things bounce back, and we get out of what we're in. And, you know, and it was like, Okay, well, last year, we came into this year with $11 million in backlog This year, we're going in with 10. And you're up in the sales goal. $6 million. How do you see that? And it's a truck that hits you in the face? Like, that's a damn good point. I wish I thought of that before I open my damn mouth. But I mean, that's honest. Right? I mean, and those are great things to think about. And that's, that's looking at it from a realistic standpoint. Okay, we have data going back 10 years, it says, if, if we have this much backlog, we can do this, if we have more backlog, we can do more, you know, because that's realistic, to just throw out numbers, and then expect all your people to hit it. Because that's what you think you can or might be able to do is just, I mean, it's just a shot at the moon, it may hit it, it may not.
Yeah. When you know, the other thing about a quota, right, in a timeline is that deadlines make things happen. Right. And I used to, because you read about this on like productivity stuff. You know, when you're trying to get more things done, right. One of the first things they say is just assign a deadline, because work expands to fill the time allotted, right? So if you're supposed to make something happen this year, right, oh, lights went off. If you're watching on YouTube, comment on Clint's face right now,
Clint should have to like, put money in the till or somethings, There should be something going on. So that way we can all we can all assign that to each other.
I'm starting to wonder if there's not a coin slot on the wall. I'm forgetting to turn the lights on.
Well, you better start putting like like dollars aside, because when you lose it on this light switch and just rip that whole thing out of the wall. You'll you'll already be able to replace it, which would be nice. Yeah. All right. Um, but uh, so when deadlines make things happen, right? They just do, just wrote it down. Love that when you can when you can say, hey, look, I need you to be here by the end of the year. Okay, cool. Like I now have a target. And I have a timeline, right? We're taking it out of the realm of like ambiguity, right? To where like, you got to be always on you always have to be always accessible. Because like, that's how I feel whenever I don't have clarity. But the moment I have clarity, and I can KPI it and figure out like what the activities I need to be doing are, that allows me to shut it down whenever I'm not, like supposed to be on the clock. And that, to me, is the balance that I need as a C in a sales role.
Yeah, and even to the point of not just a sales goal, but even like deadlines with your customers because I have all kinds of customers like Hey, man, give it to me when you can get it to me and then in a week they're screaming at you. Why didn't you get this to me? It's like, well, you told me you get to you when I can. And I put you on the backburner, and I work on all this other shit. You know, and now you're a failure in his eyes. Now I'll just go with somebody else, you know?
And talk about that. Because because that's one of the big things that kills deals, right? You take too long, you lose the moment, right? And like, I were just gonna stay here, right?
I'll tell you right now I've I've, I've, I've done that right now. I mean, I'm in that, you know, it's a complete failure of mine right now, where I've got a customer called me, Hey, you told me to have this last week. And it's like crap, I was working on other things. I could give him 1000 excuses other than just own it. I messed up. I'll, you know, I hope, I hope you still give us a shot here. And I may have lost a pretty good sized deal. And I would really hate to report that I do that in a couple of weeks. But at the same time, it goes right back to deadlines of it was a Give it to me when you can give it to me in a couple weeks. Hey, maybe you could just wrap that up by the end of the week. And there was never... And so to this whole point, right? If somebody would have told me December 12, at 3pm I want this thing that works for me, right? And I will have it to you because I'll work till midnight. But if if you tell me it's just needed a couple of weeks, I'm going home at six o'clock, seven o'clock at night.
And, and let me let me throw this out there too. When I say when when I say hey, I'm flexible on this. It's in my mind that you don't know what my flexibility is or isn't right.
That's such an I statement.
It is such an I statement.
Right, but but what I'm but I'm turning into a D and a C saying I understand, and I's need to understand this, that that flexibility. If you set yours, you're thinking three months, and the guy says, Oh, no, I was giving to you till tomorrow, I'm used to getting this today.
Right, ask the question to clarify.
Clarification. When you have ambiguity, you you could run a foul because of it. So be careful out there.
I am. I am called in numerous circles like Captain Literal. Because like if you tell me Ah, take your time. Okay. I will. But the other side of this is when it's like because Clint has a team involved, right? Like like this step takes process he has to go in, he's got to get the whole plan put together and stuff like that. And when you have a process, you should know how long it takes to get something through that due diligence. And so that way, you can sit down with him and go over the numbers. And like make that part of your process. Go in and build that out with your team. Hey, guys, if I bring you something, how long do you need to like vet it and put the numbers together? Everything else? We need three days? Okay, cool three days, so that way you can set that expectation? Hey, Clint.
But But I think most I think most people do get that right. Do what? On their side of the equation, how long it takes a certain process to Oh, you think not?
Well, because because here's what happens for the for the I personality, right? Because I coach a couple of these guys. And they do this. Right? they they they set the expectation, everybody forgets everything. So then that prospect is like, Hey, man, it's been a couple of days I've heard anything from ya. Right? And that I, who has probably forgotten when they had the original conversation, how much time it has been, what kind of expectation they said and everything else like this. They just turn to the team and they say, Hey, where are we on this? Right? And the team's like, God, like we know how long this takes. Wait, we've talked about this, right? If you don't have those conversations, and you're just a terrible salesperson who is like making it really hard for your team, right? Agreed.
I'm like I'm an I, but I would add that that rails me I'm like, how do you not know your process? And the timeframe for all the dynamics? And it's not just one dimensional? Not unless you sell one product, but most of us don't? Your, I mean, I guess I'm less AI than maybe some other people out there. Well, it don't let me down eyes quit being jerks man.
The big difference, though, is that is that you're in a position of like leadership and ownership inside of your company because it's yours. Right? So but there are plenty eyes that do the same thing that I do. Absolutely. Right. And when you're when you get to that level of confidence, right, you hit that critical mass and things are going well and you know what you're doing, then you don't do the same stuff, right? I'm talking about people who work for somebody else. There's this pressure of quota and certain goals and everything else like this. And you get that you get that email. And it's like oh, I don't even I don't have the notes on this right I didn't put it in the CRM. I didn't write anything down. It's just been this like nebulous thing and you know, all of a sudden, you have no idea what expectations you set.
No, no, I did that right. But come on, man. You gotta have some kind of Rolodex in your head that shows you and you know you take a handful of notes and then you hold on guys I have a way of utilizing C's and DS and S's and everybody's helping us. We're like the step- we're just the village idiot, right?
What an I statement that was right like we're all talking about like like how we're having to like offshoot for our weaknesses and find certain things so that we like like, like we can run as well as as well as we possibly can. An Al the I is just like this is why I utilize other people so that they can do this stuff.
Don't take that the wrong way. It takes a village man.
We're taking it literally.
No, no, the funny thing is he just said, Oh, it takes a village. I literally heard all that literally, I'm like, I agree with you. Yeah, you should put this on everybody else, because that's the D way of thinking to do 100%. Hey, I have this person for that I have that person for that.
Here's the deal. But the difference between an I and a D is, Clint demands it. I just beg for me out, man, this is going horribly wrong. And I'm a likable guy. You wouldn't want this on your brother who looks like me. Please help me out?
Well, the so the other thing to consider, right is that a lot of people are not intentional with their conversations, right? They're not, they're not setting the next step, right. They're like, Oh, yeah, we'll get this back to you in a couple of days. And then they they cannot figure out why it's so hard to get back in front of these people. It's like, You're the one who let them go back into their social media and their emails and their other competing priorities. Like, you're asking for that. Right? Like, like, you need to know your process. And so that way, you can set that expectation, because what happens is, most people don't don't do it at all. Oh, yeah, we're gonna get this back to you, you know, soon, you know? And then and then we'll and then we'll go over together. What the hell kind of expectation is like, I don't know what to expect now. Like, okay, yeah. And
I don't know, I don't know many people. And it's definitely I don't think it's a personality thing. That people that don't hit goals, regardless of you know, even if it's to the point of, Hey, Nan, I need you to go kill it, that's still a goal of some sort, that's still a quota of some sort is a measurable I don't know, that's remains to be seen. But the point of it is, is when you don't feel that you've killed it in Nan's point, or you didn't hit a quota in John's point to a certain degree, I don't care who you are, that's pretty demotivating, no matter what personality or walk of life you're from. And so I'll challenge you with this. If if you're out there listening and you're in a sales role is that when somebody gives you an open ended, or maybe even gives you too much, because if I worked for John, and he gave me 1000 things to do every day to hit these measurables, I would have a problem. Do that with somebody like you agreed, but people do, right? Sure. And, and so I would have a problem with that. And that needs to be upfront expectations of who you are, and who you work with, to make sure that, hey, I'm lessening, even if I don't hit this goal, I'm lessening the demotivation. At the end of the year, or to the point of what we're talking about, I've got to lessen the burden on myself, because man, I'll tell you, I don't I really don't care who you are. I think you get demotivated instantly when you don't hit somebody's expectation.
Well, and, and own and understand that if the pressure is too great, you're just setting yourself up for failure, right? And then there's where the conversation happens. It's like it's a shared responsibility. Whoever puts the quota on me owns a certain amount of responsibility for their expectations, right.
That's the nugget right there. Right? You can't just show up and like drop a big number in someone's lap and then, like, I mean, you can, and lots of people do.
Here's what you get from me. How the fuck do you want me to get there? Right? You know, my track record? Hell, you know me better than I know myself. Oh, my shadow scares me. What are you asking me to do?
I yeah. But and why. Right, about about de- about demotivating, you know, whenever you don't hit a goal, or you don't hit somebody's expectation, right? Like, that's really important when you're trying to like build your sales culture, right? If your sales culture is just results only, right? I don't care what you do, like, like, just hit this number. And we'll see in December. Right? Yeah. But when you can build a culture around like, Okay, how do we improve? Right? coaching culture reflects of culture like, Okay, how do we improve next time? How do we how do we get better in the next conversation? How do we continue to improve? I think that that changes it a little bit, because then it's like, okay, hey, we missed the target. But sometimes things happen, what do we need to adjust? Right. And the other thing is
More cocaine and hookers.
The other thing is, is you need to have a mindful eye on this right, which is why the tracking component is so important, right? Because in Clint's, in Clint's business, right, he's talking about backlog and all these things, and I'm projects that might like might start in April, right? And it's like, you can feel really good about that and take your foot off the gas. And that that's my concern, right is that I start to see the things that I want to see. And then I take my foot off, and then I start to slow things down, but I'm telling myself Oh, in the future in the future in the future, right. No, starts starts right here this week. What are you doing? You know, my opinion.
Yep. No, I agree with that, john. Especially with the take the foot off the gas because I see it all the time. I say to myself sometimes Okay, I got that one out the door. I can relax for a minute, but man, you gotta you still need to be on the gas with another project. You still got you should have more in your pipeline that you should be pumping out the door. Right. So that happens a lot. I see that in all personalities of all ages. I've seen that happen. And yeah, okay. I did my part see in a couple of weeks. No, man, we need you need to go in again.
Yeah. When you when you flourish in the 'What have you done for me lately,' like sales culture, you're going to die by that same kind of sales culture. Whereas, yeah, I like like I know every week I need to have five decision maker conversations like every week in like, well, and that's the goal. That's all I have to shoot for and everything else after that is extra and gravy and just nice.
So I, I'd say that I think some of those tenured sales guys, some of those people that have been with you maybe 10 years or maybe even 30 or 40 years, right. One of the things is like a company leader or sales leader that you got to be careful of is is how you motivate people if they hit their goal as well, right? Because if the only thing is that if I don't hit it, it's bad. But if I make it or do better than it's just the same as up, it just goes up. Yeah, or ever. Yeah, you increase it, but there's no, you know, there's no reward at the end of the day. So because a lot of guys will just straight up tell you, hey, that's what I pay you commission for you did your job. And, you know, I don't totally I don't totally disagree with that, by the way, it's just that I challenge you to along the way, those measurable goals are more important to me now than they ever were, of being able to constantly reward Hey, we hit our two, two million, because I like to break it down monthly, I like to break any goal down in a monthly fashion. So I everything in my world is always kind of divided by 12. I've always kind of lived that. And I even bring it down further. Because I mentioned a couple times where I almost throw two months completely out of the window, I'm still utilizing that 12 month window, but I'm really setting my goals and in the month. And for me that works really easy. Because I think, hey, one of these months, you're going to pop a big job you might have been working on for 12, 13 months, and it's gonna be 6 million when our goal was 2.5. That happens a lot. But the next month might only be 200,000. And the next month might be 250,000. Again, and that happens in my business a ton. So it's really hard to break an even split. But I will tell you, if you can hit a $6 million one, and then we can still push forward and get that same goal next month. That's huge for our backlog huge for our business. I still know that my goal is x and is divided by 12. And I can roll that over. That's that's, to me, that's worst case scenario. But like I said, just having those, those measurables along the way, those little KPIs and they don't have to be to John's 900 spreadsheet world, they don't have to be that you don't have to live in that world if it doesn't work for you. And maybe they're just monthly chickens. Maybe it's just Hey, you know how we do this month? Okay, we hit our goal. Great. Let me take everybody out. And let's celebrate the win right now. Because that's huge that we hit our goal, there has to be something beyond a number that you're trying to shoot for if you're running.
Agreed, right. And, well, the way that I think about that. Is that that same guy who's gonna say, well, that's why I pay you commission. He's all he's also whenever you don't perform what you don't like money? You know, because like he he's only looking at it from like, the things that might be motivating to them. Right. And this happens a lot of times whenever you promote your best salesperson, right, who is money motivated, right? They just want to win. And then they can't understand how to motivate anybody else, because they're just not motivated the same ways.
Yeah. Right. I mean, I see. I see.
So how is it that you just said that your your highest money guy is money motivated? That's a bold statement. I'd say most most of those guys aren't. They're motivated by the challenge, because that's what makes them great, man. They just love to get out there and make it happen.
I would say that those guys needed to be rewarded. And I think that their reward is money, I believe that.
No, no, no, I I get it. But my, money's a lagging indicator right.
Um
Yes, it is. Well, it
Well, it is a lag, it is a lagging indicator. I don't know if it's a lagging motivator because I think a lot of people come into it because Yeah, because they want to just they want to sell make that that quick.
Well, if I'm worried about what's going on what, hey surprise me, what did I sell this? Again, was that good or bad? Was it, you tell me?
I literally spent time earlier today building out a sales tracker spreadsheet for a sales team that I'm working with. And I'm and and I got done with it. And I was just like, yeah, inside of here, Al be like, you tell me I don't even know is the most foreign concept. I can wrap my head around.
Hold on guys. I actually have a so I go to this trial, right. So I have a patient and they were involved in a motor vehicle accident. And so I go to trial, and I'm sitting there and you know, this is you know, a big kind of case and I'm, my attorney, attorney for the plaintiff who's sort of on our side. And it's an insurance company and their guy. He says, Dr. Daniel, how much are you owed on this case? Right, because they just didn't want to be stonewalled. And I'm like, I don't know. I didn't. I didn't even know that that was gonna be a question. So we walk out of the courtroom, and that attorney looks at me and he goes, you always effing know what you're owed. I didn't know. I mean, we're right in the courthouse, I'm like, I didn't know that was gonna be one of the questions here. Thank you very much for telling me that.
You always answer that question with a million dollars at the least. A million dollars.
I mean, I couldn't even reference what the case was worth. I mean, they said show up at court, I'd like done my job. He was on his way to being better. And you know, we were just trying to get bills paid. Yeah. So So what's funny is Al and I were talking about some marketing and some other programs for like, for, like some of his projects, and, and he starts sending me these like spreadsheets. And I'm like, wait a minute, and he was like, oh, not me. This is my team. And I was like, Okay, now this makes more sense. Like, I just have them.
John's like, Hey, good for having those at your fingertips. Well, no, I get all the emails, right. So I knew where to go find them. I didn't know what the hell was gonna even be on there. I was like, impressed myself when I saw the numbers. I'm like, Oh, shit, $2 million. And that looks beautiful. Anyway,
So we're at time, guys, if you if you are watching this on YouTube, Clint's lights about to go off any minute. So just like in subscribes that way we can we can talk about it in the comments and make fun of them. But let's go around real quick. Right, quotas, are they motivating? Are the demotivating? Is there a better motivating thing that maybe we haven't talked about? Clint start with you?
I think we hit it pretty hard. It's it's one, it's professional, it's personal. And, you know, personality makes a huge puts a huge spin on all this conversation, I will tell you that. If you're a leader out there, even just even a leader of yourself, because you're always a leader of yourself, you got to know what motivates you and demotivates you and head off those things as much as possible. And if you're a sales leader of a team, you got to head those demotivating factors off for them, you got to know your team well enough to head that stuff off. There's all kinds of leadership training and you know, we we constantly mission juncos book of Extreme Ownership, that stuff is in there so hard of how to kind of run your team and know those people to sort of, you know, to kind of sum all this up to set quotas for people, you have to do it in so many different ways that works for the people you're setting them for. And even yourself and even your company, what do they expect? So when you get really down on yourself for not hitting a goal, I think you need to go back to when you set the goal. And was it achievable? Was it realistic? Was it what I even wanted to do? Is it you know, there's so many factors in it, but I think always looking backwards? Lessons learned and thinking about what you how you set the goal. What measurables did you do? Did I need measurables? And I didn't set? Do I not need any of this works for me. You got to know that about yourself. You got to know about your team, you got to know what about the company you work for?
Absolutely, man. Okay, Al?
Did I do good?
You did great. Nan?
Meaning, and I'll expound upon this. Yeah, usually I's live up to other people's expectations. Right. We just want to please. And in a certain sense, you know, it's the pat on the back. I mean, the money's a lagging indicator. Like I said earlier. If I know that I'm I'm doing well then I just I actually want to be the best guy at what I do. Right. And that's always rewarded me. So you know, if you're asking me to think harder on this equation, Yes, I can. So don't ask, right.
He's like, all I do is win. It just it speaks to me. I don't I don't know what it's like to lose.
I always, always want to feel good about whatever happened, right.
Okay, all right. Awesome. Miss Nan.
I can pretty much say exactly what Al just said. Just do your best. always strive to beat for excellent. Don't, man, I just don't get it. But okay, I'm sorry. I know that's wrong.
It's okay, man. Neither do I but man, wow, wow, you take it to another level.
Okay. For I mean, for me as a C, right? You gotta have some clarity around the goal, or else it's gonna bother you. Right? It's just going to eat at you. In the end. The thing is, is like before you become self-aware, it's going to bother you and you're not even going to know why. Right? And you're not going to know how to handle it. You're not going to know the right questions to ask and stuff. So what's going to happen is you're going to go try to talk to someone and it's going to end up being miserable, because you're going to continue to get the right clarity.
So that just makes me think It's really important to be on a team with a bunch of different personalities. Because, absolutely, you know, I listen to you and I'm like, Okay, well, I need you on my team. I can't ever think that way. And you can't ever think my way maybe. But if we're together, maybe we can figure out how to be extremely successful, figure out how to be successful and do it. I mean,
There's, there's a reason why you still work with Al and I do not, right? No. It doesn't have, it doesn't have anything to do with Al, honestly right? Like, like Al is who he is, and he owns it. But like, you have to find the way that's going to work for you. Right. And this is what we've been talking about since day one on here. I would be miserable. Now in a role like Nan's and a role like Al's, and a role like Clint, right, like I like I get it, it just would not work out, I could do it, I'd be miserable, I would burn out. And then I would try to go find something else to do. But when you can, like build it around your way around your shortcomings and stuff. Like, it's like, the way that I frame my conversations now. Like, it's not, Hey, can I have 15 minutes? You know, it's like, these people are responding to different kinds of things. And they're saying, Hey, I would like to learn more about this. Okay, great. I'd love to see if you're a good fit for the program, right? We didn't The only difference really, between those two things is how I'm framing the conversation. What's the expectation here, right? And so when when you can build your process around, right? If you're a C. So where you can come in without authority, as opposed to being you know, the likable guy, right? I'm not going to win on the likable range, right? versus Al, like, they're gonna want to go hang out without like, because he's fun. And he just barrel laughs. Dude. Clint's the same way. But hold on, right? I'm just like, pure like, like self deprecation. I mean, it's into an end, right? So I go build the process. So that way I can sell the way that I want to sell right with the authority, and I'm going to get yes or no. And I'm going to do it my way. And you know, it's totally fine.
No, ultimately, it all of this. That's what I love about this podcast is ultimately it is know, know who you are, and know who you're talking to, obviously know that that's that you're going to win if you do that. Absolutely. And we will help you do that.
Yeah, that's it right there. That was awesome. Guys, if you are listening to this, and you're, you know, somebody else you might be struggling or you might be struggling. And because you haven't taken that first step to really understand who you are, how you communicate, what you need in a sales conversation to feel comfortable. Reach out to us, send us a text 817-345-6779 we can get you hooked up with one of these assessments. And here's the thing, I had someone and they were trying to fool our assessment, you can't do it, right, because it'll kick you out. So you have to answer honestly, you have to be yourself and that way you get the results that you're looking for. And it is going to show up so much further than just your sales conversation in your sales role. But if you're looking to take this assessment, because maybe some free time in December because we all know you're not cold calling people in December, reach out to us. We can get you this assessment, you can start learning about yourself. If you're watching on YouTube, please comment. Let's just make Clint have to fix this light switch in his office. Like and subscribe follow us on all social, everything is at Sales Throwdown. Yeah, that's it, guys. We This is going to be probably our last episode for this year. Right? Because we're we're going to do some re-releases because everyone's gonna be busy with the holidays. So take this time to plan for January. Don't start planning in January. You're already behind the curve, plan now. Make sure you're set up for success. Have a great holiday. Cheer. Merry Christmas. Absolutely.
See you next year.
Yep.