What is the difference between preparation and goal setting/KPI's? Goal setting lets you plan out where you want to be, and KPI's are the map to getting there. Preparation, however, involves the details of figuring out each specific client or job. There are many different ways of preparing, a lot of them depending on your DISC profile. Sometimes preparation can even happen after the event. Researching about who they are on the DISC spectrum, knowing who else might be pitching them, having your numbers ready, figuring out what went wrong in an unsuccessful sales conversation. Those are just some of the ways you can prepare for sales situations. Whether it's huge networking events or one-on-one coffees, preparing for all of your sales situations could mean the difference between landing a client or walking away empty-handed. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Have you taken a DISC assessment yet? If not and you want to know more about it, email us at assessment@salesthrowdown.com. ✅ Sign up for our emails: https://www.salesthrowdown.com/ ✅ Connect with us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Salesthrowdown ✅ Check us out on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/salesthrowdown/ ✅ And keep up with us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/SalesThrowdown
Let's get ready to Throwdown!
Welcome to the show everybody. I can, I can only live in that world for so long. And then I have to come back to it.
So I could be there forever.
Even without that.
So, on our last episode, we talked about accountability a fair amount. And what we heard from some people was that we also talked a little bit about preparation, right, and preparation was part of accountability. And then some people were asking for a little bit more about that. So today, we're talking about preparation, pre call planning, you know, pre pre meeting, planning pre, you know, how you prepare for all the aspects of your role as a salesperson, right? And I'm a big fan of like taking 30 seconds, what?
Nothing keep going, Man, what? What? Of course you're a big, the C is the biggest fan of his plan. And whereas me I'm like, I'm not sure this is gonna work. But what do you think about trying this?
Well, we were talking before we turn the mics on. And before we start talking about Flat Earth, but this idea that the more confident you are and the more competent you are in your skill set, the less preparation you have to do, right? Because for me, when I when I prep too much...
Or when you're winning.
Or the more times you've done the prep work.
That's fair, right?
Or you're secure in what you're doing.
But yeah, I agree with that. What I find is that when i when i when i prepare now, and I think about how much preparation I used to do, I find myself making too many assumptions, right? And then I enter into the conversation with this agenda, right, as opposed to just being open of like, hey, like, Is there a problem here that I can solve? Right? I start I start getting fixated on certain things that don't always serve me.
Well and you're serving yourself not listening to your clients. So times, right? You're falling just your game, it's sometimes too much to the tee. And if you if you're open to let me see where the conversation goes from the other side, for sure, and I've got Plan A, B, and C. So I've been down this road a number of times, and I know where the client can go and will go most times.
So how do you separate yourself, John, when you prepare for a meeting, and you walk into a room with a, let's say, a CEO of a Fortune 500 company that makes a lot of money flies around on private jets? How do you separate yourself from every other salesman that's walked in? They're probably saying a lot of the same things because they've all prepped pretty similarly with facts and data, and they separate that.
So for me, I mean if you happen to know a fortune 500...
Like, wow, how did I get here?
Please, please make an introduction.
But and what I mean by that is somebody so far out of your spectrum of your daily life, right, they live a completely, for sure. They think they're at the moon and you're, you know, you're in Illinois.
Well, I think that that kind of starts with like the bonding and rapport and you know, how you vision, the levels of the dynamic of the relationship, right? Because, you know, we talked about, you know, equal business stature and being on the same level and things like this. And I think that that doesn't necessarily come from preparation, right? Because I think that if you spend too much time preparing and reading on this guy that you're calling on, right, and you see who he is and what he does, and everything else, you lead to this uneven relationship right there on this pedestal, and you're willingly putting yourself down here. So when what I think separates me is my ability to ask questions, hold people accountable, right? build rapport, build trust, right.
So your preparation is a lot of questions.
Oh, man, every, everything in my first conversation is a question literally everything, from my framing to my next steps to everything,
Think I do that, I just don't write it down. I don't prep for it. Well, cause I'm going in with the unknown and we kinda talked about that a little bit. But like I'm going in with the thought that I truly don't know anything. Yeah. Therefore I'm forced to ask the questions.
Exactly, right. When I, what my worst calls these days are when I spend too much time planning and I make a bunch of assumptions and that I don't cover that ground and it leads to gaps and stalls and objections. Well, and then and then I'm just mad at myself for for overthinking it, right? Because man I live, right, you know, because we talked about this idea that you can be too much in your head with all of this stuff, sales and martial arts and you know, being in the military and shooting and everything else. And I love to live in my head, right of like, Oh, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do this. And what I found is that my conversations are better when I'm forced to ask the question, because I can't make an assumption, you know, like in Office Space, he rolls out that that Jump to Conclusion mat, like, that's me. Right? I jump to those conclusions. I make all these assumptions and I used to not verbalize them and it would get me in trouble or it would lead to gaps in my sales process.
I think there's a line there in between what I do and what you do, that's probably the more correct line. Under preparation and over preparation.
It's probably covered by an I, the probably the sweet spot you guys are looking for, come on over, I can help you out.
I mean, probably.
Okay, so let's dig into that. So Al, right, if you're gonna go call on someone...
Do you even know how to spell preparation?
Probably not.
But let me tell you a story,
Makes me nervous just saying it though.
Of all people ask.
So So let's talk about it as a night right? Because I mean you love our I's typically love doing stuff right and just kind of show up and just kind of bet on themselves of you know, I'm charismatic enough I'm influential enough that you're gonna love me and you're gonna want to buy from me. So how much prep do you do before you're vetting a you know, a surgeon or a front line guy or you know, in these different areas you work in?
Probably more than you would think.
Yeah, cuz I cuz i'm not i'm not really betting on any, honestly.
Is that because of your personality or because you you have bills to pay and you're a business owner.
Both. But I like to have some information. But I don't want to make a judgment call on too much of that information. And I want to be open to, like Clint, being forced to ask questions because of what my client or my prospect is telling me. Now, do I want to qualify? That's where the information gathering helps me qualify? What are they currently using? What are they? What Who are they working with, you know, connecting all those dots so that I'm not... And it opens the conversation of I know you work with or you've done business with. So I can build some common, you know, some rapport through talking shop and industry stuff, then hone in in, you know, the specifics of whatever that sales calls about, or what I'm trying to ascertain is this, they have any values, worth the conversation?
Okay. And Nan, are you probably along the same lines, right?
Pretty much.
Yeah. That's why I say kind of falls in that between us, right. I figured you guys would be pretty similar on that.
It's not it's not a precise science by any means. And sometimes it goes really, really well. And sometimes not so well. The guys, and that's, you know, maybe the guy's mood is, this is more of an interruption. So I, if I'm just following my script, I don't even pick up on that. Yeah. Okay, if you can get to the point where, oh my god, I gotta make this brief and figure out how to get back to a better sales conversation. Yeah, I mean, I'm working that while I'm in the room.
So it sounds like your preparation is much more about kind of reminding yourself to like stick and follow a process than it is like preparing for the client individually. Am I, am I hearing you correctly?
Both, but it's to get out of my own way. That's my preparation. Don't, I have more, 'don't do this, versus do this.'
Oh, yeah.
That's great. Yeah. I love that too.
Don't, whatever you do, don't step in soon. Stay away from this.
I just want to be relatable. Keep it going. I do. I don't want it to be, eh, done.
Yeah, I mean, to Doc's point, I have that a lot where it's like, you know, the guy says, Oh, I was in Montana and, you know, fishing for salmon the other day and I caught one this big. Like I have to don't talk about the salmon that you got.
Exactly. Or don't don't put your story into that, Shut up, right now. I'm bad. I really have to say, let them live in their glory. Wow, that's so amazing. Well, how do you do that? And I'm like, now if it's trout, right? I can't catch a trout to save my ass right? I like to trout fish, but I suck at it.
So there's the difference between an I and a D right there, right? He's Yeah, he would bring that up to say, Man, how do you do it? Because I can't. Yeah, whereas the D would be like, I'm not saying anything because I fucking suck at that. And I'm not going to tell you that.
But doesn't that make it harder to get to gain rapport?
No, absolutely. The struggles between how easy it is for an I to go that we're, and just being people oriented? Yeah. Because we're on that people side, right and, and I think that that's where I have the biggest struggle with, you know, sitting in that and hearing that fishing story and I want to chime in and then when I'm bad at whatever they do good. I want to pull myself so far away instead of just saying, you know, I don't know shit about that. Let me hear Let me hear about it. I don't have that compassion enough to really dig in.
Is it compassion? I caution because I know you're a compassionate guy. Is it compassion or is it just your personality won't give in to the fact... That well that's that's the inside of you not the outside. And is it that you just can't admit that you can't do something very well? Yeah, yeah. Okay, cuz I wake up knowing there are things I just suck at.
Well, and there's also but there is a little bit of compassion that I want to hear the story. That's compat-
Do you want to hear the story?
No, I'm saying that I, I don't want to hear it.
Yeah, cuz I don't either. I hate small talk. Right.
So like, so it takes a little bit of...
Closed off.
It's cold in here. It went from being super hot to being cold, I'm not trying to like close myself off from this.
So for example, and I'm going to make myself sound really shitty here but I'm gonna. So like when somebody tells me like, Oh, you know, my mom's sick? My instant response is, 'okay, and? Anyway.' Yeah, right like I just go right over that and and I should, you know...
But they're telling you that for a reason. You're not even their best friend and they're bringing this is, something's weighing... is where I'm going with that. Wow I sorry to hear about that I'm sure that's going to make this day difficult for you.
I struggle with that too.
I think you're young you haven't experienced a lot of negative probably.
I kind of I kind of flinch with the young thing because I'm gonna be 40 right, I mean that's not...
I think you go in there and you say to them...
Or the loss because I probably dealt with it as much or more than anybody.
Okay, so then why are not empathetic?
Because I don't havethe empathy. Yeah, exactly
Yeah, exactly, right. When when I'm at when I'm meeting with a prospect, it's for a very specific reason. Let's see if we can work together. And until I started learning about this stuff about DISC and everything else, my bonding and rapport was always, was always way too short. Okay, cool. So So, enough about that, what do you want to talk about today? And if they're an I, and they need that rapport and they need that little, it's like *shoonk*, and the walls are up.
You guys are missing the point, you reach out and you say so are we thinking burial or cremation for her?
I mean, that's what, there's a, there's a line between what I said and what you said is probably correct. That's why, that's why it's so this is so interesting to me
One of the one of the things that I'm working on is being more okay with like that kind of stuff, right? And part of that, for me is like, I don't like accepting compliments, right? Because for me, I'm always well, I could be better. Right? You know, and, you know, was like...
That's so selfish, you know, and I do it too. I can be selfish.
I get, I get that it's kind of, you know, if someone gives you a compliment, you should just accept it and say thank you, but it's it's still a struggle for me, right? And and so, I recently lost this weight and some people are like, Hey, man, you're looking pretty good. You lost some weight. And my default is like, Well, I'm not where I want to be yet. When I when I should just be like, Thank you. I appreciate it. Cool. I struggle with that, you know, no, it's obviously something I'm working on, right. And then that also leads to, like, uncomfortable conversations around like, you know, I'm catching up with someone and they're struggling with something and like taking that second to let go find some empathy because I don't have it by default, right? I've either done it and I can help you or I don't know anything about it and I just want to shut up and move on to something that we can talk about. Yeah. And it's, it's, I'm aware of it which I wasn't for like such a long time. And now that I'm aware of it, I can kind of you know, you know, this is gonna sound terrible, but fake it right because because once I can put myself into that mindset, it's a little bit easier for me to like access that stuff, but it's like we have a we have a we have a mission. We have a task. Let's Let's catch up. Let's talk about what's going on. Let's talk about some referrals and some introductions like like that's how I view my coffees.
So I'm listening to this from Clint and
My name is John.
John.
Welcome to the show, Nan.
Nan just woke up.
That Rose is hitting pretty hard.
Mama's meds are wearing off.
But let me, let me tell you, Mama didn't forget my name.
Truly, wow. Okay, focus.
That means a lot to you.
The reason for the hesitation was because my brain was like, do I say their name or that he's a D and a C.
Sure, whatever helps you sleep tonight, S.
You don't have to explain anything to me. I thought you hit it right on the head.
So anyway, are we gonna say anything meaningful in this conversation?
Preparation's the topic, by the way.
Ya'll are mean, okay. All I wanted to say was, Why do you feel like you don't want to hear what that person is saying? Is it because,
Cuz Nan's dying to get in there a dish.
Because you don't want to share either or do you want to share but if you just can't reciprocate? What is, what is it that causes...
What's so broken in you?
How can anyone stand to be around you?
No, I'm just trying to understand it.
Trust me, we are too.
I know. So what causes that to happen?
We don't have it.
Look at him, not us.
This gene of what you have of pulling that out of people because you really want to know. That's natural for you. We don't have that.
Yeah, right. This is why we're here on this podcast.
That's why I'm asking. So do you want to tell people about your life and expect them to be interested? Is all I'm trying to understand.
If you ask, I tell, but uh...
I like to, I like to talk about it. This is a weird dynamic for me. And I don't know how much of this is like C oriented. I like bragging about myself and the things that I've done, but I don't want anybody else to brag on me.
I would never get on social media tomorrow and be like, Oh, man, my dog died. And then wait for the you know, wait for it. Yeah, that's not me. It's like, this is my businesses. My dog. You know, it died. That's my problem, I'll gut that shit, bury it deep, and move the fuck on. That's me.
So then you want other people do the same, correct?
Well, I just think it's naturally inherent that I think other people would do that. So when I get hit with that, you know, my dog died last week. I'm like, Okay. Anyway, so we were talking about, you know, because it just doesn't it doesn't. Yeah, it doesn't belong in this conversation that we're having.
Exactly. Yeah. That like, like, that's the thing. We're here for a purpose. Right. And back in the day, I would just make an assumption that your purpose was the same as mine, right? I know better than that now.
I want to say we are so far off preparation, we should probably get back to that.
I don't think we're that far off of it, honestly.
I think this is identifying how you're gonna, you're preparing to go to the meeting, what they're going to say, what you're going to reciprocate.
I gotta be prepared for mom's illness and my dog died.
If that's what it takes. If that's what it takes, you do.
But I don't prep for that. They give that to me. I even said that. I feed off of what they say so,
Not true, because if you're a C, and you don't expect it and you don't know what you potentially will go okay, right, great. Okay, moving on. I mean, you could literally do that, right?
I can be very cold.
You could literally lose a sale because of it.
Okay, so you just hit on a good point. You go in, I firmly believe this. I go in really having to pay attention to the facts and figures of the deal, which are going to naturally just resonate with Oh, yeah, John, and maybe Clint here. But I got the emotional side of this thing wired, right. Because I can show empathy. I got buckets of empathy that I drag with me.
That's a good point, because we all have to focus on different prep.
but I got to stop myself and go do it. Now. I'm good with numbers, and I do remember them. Did he say 2500? Or was it 250? How often does this cycle run. All those business dynamics I really, really need to focus in on and that you know, how are they delivering those. But mom's illness and the dead dog and the kids and the vacations and the sunsets, man, I'm just,
I'm lost. No, in that conversation, I'm out.
Do I need to explain this?
I'm just saying, I think the C and the D need to prepare for that.
Right. And that comes down to like knowing knowing who you're talking to. And there's this great tool for LinkedIn, it's called Crystal right? And it's not perfect, but it's pretty good. And so there's a free free level of it.
Nothing's perfect in your world.
You do have all the apps. I love that you bring that to our listener's attention.
There's a there's a Chrome extension. If you're on Chrome, it's called crystal. And what it does is you can look at someone's LinkedIn profile, and it's going to tell you who they are on DISC. Now, the bad thing about it is that someone like me, I put out a lot of content on LinkedIn. Right, I post on there somewhat regularly. So because of that, I look like an I. Yeah, right. And I think when I ran it on myself recently, it was it was a little bit more true than what it was but originally, it was just like super high. I don't know that's not correct. But here's deal, I need to know before I walk in the room, more than anything else, where this person sits on the spectrum of the table that we're here at, right? Are they like Al and I need to like really kind of like ramp up the personality and like, let them tell their stories and like, let them kind of feel like they're there, you know, leading the thing, right? Because that's, that's a thing, right? When I am when I'm like, cold, critical self, and I'm trying to sit down with an I and they're like, man, why didn't this guy like me? And it's really hard to kind of move the conversation forward.
Well, earlier we were talking about identifying people and and you can ask questions to identify, Clint, you were speaking earlier about? Do you want to share what?
Oh, what we're talking about is a lot of times like a networking event or something, or when I'm surrounded by a bunch of different people that I don't know. I tend to ask offhanded questions just to see their responses. So, you know, one of the things we're talking about is like, you know, simply put, do you, um, hey, saw that soccer game the other day, what do you guys think of it? And you'll I mean, you just see people light up or not light up, Oh, F soccer. Football is a sport, baseball, I like this and you just start seeing these personalities really come out. But if you do've asked like, what do you guys think of this building project going on downtown? You kind of get the typical front page news answer of this, you know...
I like it. I liked that idea a lot of like asking kind of like a, like a left field question and see how they're really gonna respond to it.
And so I mentioned one to, it was kind of funny how in depth our conversation got, pretty quickly, really quickly. But I always ask about what people think of the homeless, right? What do you think about like?
But you gave an example how you had met somebody and he gave you his story and you're, and then invoked in me what I would have done in the same situation. So he laid out a scenario about a guy that was homeless on the corner. And again, I there's where your compassion because you really kind of were compassionate to him.
Absolutely, yeah, absolutely. So, but to see the different personalities and the different opinions pop out of that, you'll never get that in a standard, prepared.
Business conversation.
You know, so so sometimes, you know, bringing up off the wall, third parties, you know, situations and things that you've been in and just kind of, you know, throwing a topic out there.
I do that with, I do that without ever really thinking about it, right? Because like, I get really jazzed up about my hobbies, right? Like martial arts and bicycling and stuff and so that I'm like, Hey, what are you doing when you're not working? Right? And because it's kind of a left field answer. You're not going to do that, man. We're super busy, right? And it's like, you know, presentation of yourself, right? You're going to be real and honest. And what because I get so jazzed up about hobbies, right? Whenever someone else is jazzed up, they're gonna Oh, yeah. And like, this is how I track it. Okay, cool. Like not an I, okay cool.
It's funny you say that because just the other day, we had a, we had one of our we're trying to win this land this job with a customer and the customer said, so you know, guys, what's your workload right now, you guys, you know, you guys like everybody else, you guy's slammed? And that hurt my feelings because we're not slam right we need to work that's why we're here. But you don't want to tell him that you're not slammed like he just said all your competitors are.
Was he baiting you?
No, I think it's just a typical like that's that's like...
Just the typical veriage that goes with it?
It's a standard letter of like this is conversation I have to say in this business setting. So he said that and I thought about it for a second, I was like man, you know to be honest with you not really we're a little slow right now it's uh it's you know it's it's getting tough out there this you know what we're dealing and and and and to be honest with you that's why we're here man. But that threw him off so much man it was like oh shit well let's let's get you some work.
So did it work, oh yeah, on your side of the equation or in the conversation?
I'm not saying that sold it but that got us going down the...
Well the honesty of, hey yeah...
And if I'd have answered that like, oh yeah, we're so slammed, because what he was what I found out down the road is that what he was actually asking is that, I need a lot of coverage for this job. And I'm truly asking because if you're really slammed right now, what are you going to give me your C squad to come to this job? And I can't have that. But your natural reaction for probably all through all four of us is to say, I do. We're slammed or slam Yeah, we're so busy because you don't want to admit a little bit of failure.
Seriously, I have surgeons as just last week, I had a surgeon say that to me. So how many surgeons? Are you working? Are you just like killing it? Oh, my gosh, you know, and I my brain, I had to really like, Okay. Because my thought was, is he asking because he needs some validity? Or is he asking because he doesn't want me to be too slammed that I don't have time. So I really had to tweak my response.
It's good that you have that thought.
So what did you say?
So? I said, I said, well, I've got a decent amount. I'm not definitely not slammed. I mean, seriously.
I'm not in my full capacity. I'd like to be but I'm not.
I think that's that's a good answer.
He was like, okay. Yeah. And but I think if you take either extreme, you're screwing yourself because they don't want you to be slammed.
And so exactly to the point of what we're talking about with preparation. Those are the kind of things that I think you should go in prepared to answer. Like, you should run that, whether you write it down or role play with somebody, or on your drive there sit in the parking lot, you run that scenario ahead. Yeah, I think that's, that's a really good, important question to answer.
And honestly, I think this is a whole other show subject. We'll talk about this another time. But you know, how you How do you handle those kinds of questions? Right. The prospect drops a bomb at your feet, right, in the form of, why should I buy from you? Why are you so high?
It's always going to happen.
Well, you know, and like all that stuff, and like, how do you handle that?
Why are you so high, I got loaded in the car before I walked in the door.
How do you turn it around? And we used to get calls all the time. Like, hey, do you guys only work in WordPress? And we did and the first handful of times, I'm like, yep, thanks, click.
And a lot of formal, And a lot of formal training out there will tell you to say, Well, why do you ask? Absolutely. It's like, Well, you know, answer the question, right. And then and then, you know, Yeah, it is.
I think it depends upon the personality, right because because I think, I think I can deflect an answer with Al a lot easier than I can deflect an answer with you. Right? Because you're asking with some intent, right. Al's like
Al's the simpleton.
That's why I always say,
There's a water fountain, oh great!
Simply, simply answer the question and then ask why, yeah, right. Yeah, but don't ever ask the open ended question because you're just going to ask question to question to question to question. Nobody's ever going to get anything out of this so you got to be careful about that that formal book training of a...
And give your prospect some credit for the fact that he may just think you're an idiot if you keep with the question question. You're You're like you're not my first salesman. Shut up.
I run into that a lot, with with..
Nobody's ever seen this maneuver. I'm gonna put it on him. Stop your fucking wagging.
I've had guys say, like, you're running. I don't know how they set up. But like, you're running the game on me, basically. And I'm like, No, I'm really trying to just dig to see this, right. I, yes, I am running a game on you because I'm trying
Thank you for admitting it.
Yeah, I'm trying to get to this to this solution, right? And I don't truly think that I can be a part of this solution without knowing these things. That's, that's why I say you answer those questions. But back to our topic of preparation, you got to be ready to...
You got it. Yeah, if you're saying it for the first time in front of a prospect, you're not you're not prepared,
Even if you just run it through your head, right. And that's preparation.
I'll drive around with my daughter and we're listening to like some like Taylor Swift or something like that, because she's at that age where she wants to control the radio from the backseat. So I'm just not a huge fan left my own devices.
I already knew that. Thank you, but go ahead.
I'll turn down the music and I'll do I'll do like a verbal like role play with just myself with like a frame or like asking for next step or like asking like some questions and stuff like this and she
And your daughter likes that better than Taylor Swift.
No, she doesn't like it, but she understands that is important to me. Right? You know, she's like, hey, Dad, are you practicing.
Yeah. Okay, cool. You know, can you do that somewhere else?
We're not quite there yet. She's only a 8, not 12.
She's only kid I know that, she's the only kid I know that would tell Dad, hey, Dad, headphones please. Earmuffs? I gotta listen to Taylor Swift.
So yeah, so so back to preparation, you know, I, I think it's much more when I'm preparing now it's much more trying to figure out where they are on DISC than I am trying to uncover like company size or potential needs because I want to I want to talk about that stuff in the moment. So that way my authenticity of like really being curious and really wanting to understand
And you know how to frame your conversation if you know who your audience is, right? So if it's an I, you're gonna have to let it run a little bit. If it's a D, which most of it will be if you're talking to decision makers, I just say that, statistically speaking. You're, or an S, right. It's in and sometimes it's the C, right because you got to go see the CFO or you got the money, the you know, the process guy, right.
Materials management.
Oh, yeah. Yeah, break it off in my rear end, thank you very much. Yeah. Well, I got 10 of these on the shelf. Well, you're about to have 11 if I have anything to say about it. Let me see that shelf, I think I can squeeze this in there.
Is 10 too much?
Who's number nine?
Yeah. Throw this one away. Yeah, man.
Yeah, man. That's so funny. So Nannette's been pretty quiet, right, on this episode actually is on most episodes. But I'm curious, right because you're, you're in this world and you have to go call on these offices and you've got multiple dynamics, right? Because you've got the surgeon who you're trying to ultimately get to, you've got a gatekeeper who's there at the front. You got the scheduler who's you know, also part of that mix? And then what's what's really interesting in that world is like, you can get that doctor to say yes, and you're not even halfway there.
Doesn't mean anything, yeah, until you're on the schedule with the scheduler.
Yeah, exactly. Right. The doctor can say can tell you anything they want, right? So it's almost like they're not even the real decision maker almost right like the scheduler and then you got to go to the hospital and you got to get the hospital to like be okay with it in your pricing and everything else like that you're not already Sure. Oh yeah, man I'm so glad I'm not in that world anymore.
It's not so bad, just you know it but that speaks to it's the repetition of what your win looks like. And then it's never the same or not often the same. And it's very seldom In my opinion, a perfect pitch or perfect sales process. But you work out all the kinks because you know, it's a different person it's a different doctor. It's a different hospital. Similar but there you know, but has its own nuances so you can keep that in the back of your mind.
Yeah, you can't take it as like a as like a personal failure every time you get a no or every time you run into a brick wall or the door right because like I've been wrong, right? I'll pick someone as like a as like a CD because like their their initial conversation with me is very short. And then once I get them kind of like somewhat emotional about the topic we're talking about and like trying to uncover some pain and I'm like oh damn you're not a C or a D. I was way wrong and then I got to adjust in the moment. And and that's important. Sure.
I think that a lot of our preparation comes from after action reports of a bad situation.
Using that as a learning and a teaching tool.
When you walk out of a doctor in your in your world of surgeons conference room and you walk out and you didn't get it. That's that's prep time in my mind more, it's more effective in my world to prep then in there before it is pulling into the parking lot.
Because I'm always about the phone call afterwards. I'm like, Call me after you've done that meeting. Or I like to pick up the phone and have a conversation with anybody about what my sales call either was or wasn't.
Put it in your CRM, weird.
Yeah. But But as it as a D I don't necessarily prepare going into a meeting as much as I prepare after a meeting for the next one, okay? Does that make sense? It does.
To me it's like, it's not an onion. It's not peeling an onion. It's walking, because it's done. When you take that level that you're done. It is what like walking up stairs because you can go back one and then you go up again. It you literally can't feel defeated. If you get a negative, you just go Okay, well, that didn't work. Let me tweak it. I think that's what we do a lot. And it works. It does.
I agree. Yeah, in order to take the next step forward, I think that you have to look back on all that stuff.
And you got to make it a habit. Your, your game your game has to it's gonna have a lot of variables in between each one of those steps, but all those steps count particularly like you said, the wind down, the after, you know, decompression of
I have a whole business software idea that I want to build eventually for this like kind of exact topic because one of the things that I do right and Clint just spoke to this is I break down what went bad, right? But the other side of that and the thing that you need to do is like is celebrate what you did well, right? Because if you don't stop and think like, Man, you know, framing for me is really, really hard, setting expectations is really hard. But I did it in the last five calls like celebrate that win because... that goes
That goes back to your, your your martial arts training, right. It's like, okay, I didn't do that totally correct. But yesterday I did even worse and today I'm a little bit better.
Yeah, find the improvement, right. Celebrate the improvements because you're not gonna be perfect.
I don't tend to do that. Right. I don't either. I don't on the negative, right. Yeah, absolutely. Right. And I don't see the little wins.
But we're looking for the problems.
But sometimes we've built enough muscle memory into what we do that it just naturally flows and so we're not even picking up on it. It's just, and that's a good feeling.
Well, to me, that's why I journal right because man, you know, variance is the thing right? You can be 95% to win a deal and lose and lose and lose and lose. And the long run is longer than than anyone thinks it is right. So if you lose seven 95% deals right or 75% or whatever, whatever your percentages at a certain time when you lose all that deals, it's super easy to spiral and be like, Man, what the hell am I doing? Like, you know, let's just scrap it all and start over. But it doesn't necessarily mean that you did anything bad.
Right if that's your sales process and how many you got to kiss this many frogs to get to the prince? Yeah, that's just the way it is. It's just that's your industry, get it done.
The successful people, I heard someone say this once and I really like it successful people don't start to get not successful because the things that they were doing don't work. It's because you try to start outthinking that process and trying to like an over over tweak and over, or shortcut.
I mean, I loved what Doc said earlier about. It's more about the don'ts than the do's for me, it's definitely that and, and even you know, I have a I have a super I on my team and I mean, high highest corner I I've ever met. And when he gets in those business conversation he turns into not him. Right. It's a it's a it's a different pitch in his voice. It's a monotone recorded, I've already prepped this, this is how business is done. So I have to be on this level. And it's like, man, if you did just been you, because you're an awesome human being.
So you want him to be more, I want to have more of the I?
I want him to do less, right? That's crazy. Where he gets into that monotone. Like, okay, I have to ask these questions and and, and then it's so not natural for him when he gets a response he doesn't know how to react to and whereas in life, if I'd said that question to him just off, you know, off a job, he would just have an answer because he's an I, right. And they're really good at that. So sometimes it's scaling it back a little bit.
I think that the bigger differentiation between who you are around your friends and your family and who you are around like your your clients and your prospects, the more imposter syndrome you're gonna feel.
I was gonna say, I think I'm the same person.
Yeah, I try. I try to strive for that. I think I am now, right. I asked a ton of questions, right. I'm open to being vulnerable. I'm open to being wrong. Better than I used to be.
So mines went the other way, who I was in business is who I'm starting to become in my in my family affairs of the asking the questions and being a little more passionately. Yeah so it was always so before, you know I would I would hammer my family into doing anything wrong and like we're going to lay this out and then I would you know that super high corner D and then I would go into business and I would kind of get that on its own you know, and I'd be like well okay, we're trying to win this deal and it means a lot so I'm going to be this person. Yeah. And so now I've I've switched a little bit right bringing that's really interesting,
because I'm not I'm not as curious in questioning when it comes to like my my family. I mean, I do better now. Right? Especially with like, you know, my daughter or my girlfriend you know, like she's like stressed out about something. I'm like, do you want me to help you just or just want me to listen?
What about your why? The way you said that, people are going now is the girlfriend just a known entity or does he have a wife?
Melissa, I love you? Right? Don't, don't listen to Al.
Melissa, you are the best woman for this guy right here.
16 years. Yeah. You're the best, I love you.
Something to be said about that.
Please don't edit this out when you're transcribing this. But I think I do better about that stuff now. But I think that that's, that's really interesting because when I've, I kind of equated to, like, you know, when you're a kid and you put on like a dad's like suit jacket, it doesn't fit, you know, it's weird. And that's how I felt without really realizing and for like, so many years, and I remember, I was just starting to learn this stuff and really start to work on the sales stuff and the personality things and everything else was working with a coach, and I'm with my buddy in a car, this guy Matt who I've talked about who would make a great salesperson, I'm trying to talk them into it. And I can't not be the traditional salesperson because I'm just so excited. I'm like, Man, you gotta do this, you gotta do this is gonna be awesome and make so much money, blah, blah, blah, everything else. And he was like, Well, why? And I decided that I'm going to employ this like sales technique of like, spinning this question back around on him, but I didn't really own it. And it was weird. And I'm like, well, that's a good question. Why do you ask, and he was like, dude, is that what you're doing? Is that, is that, is that winning? I thought it was, you know, but now like my goal is, if you hear me talking to my family or talking to a friend or talking to a prospect, you shouldn't really see a difference. Right? Like, like, that's my, that's my goal now, and when I do that, well, I feel I feel okay.
You will be more successful, I totally believe it.
You touched on something. And I think it's really important because you see some of these celebrities and if you've been in areas, either service industry and you see them on TV, and then you get to see them up for personal in a hotel or a restaurant or something like that. And they're not what they portray themselves to be. It is such a letdown. And if you're really doing business with people, like we sometimes have known our clients for 10 years or more, you know, sometimes even longer than that. And if you're not genuine, genuinely in the business mode, and genuinely yourself, meaning all the time or as much of the time, that's going to slip out. Yeah, that can be that can hurt you in the long run. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Or your image or your, you know,
The last call I had with a surgeon I was telling now, the surgeon said, I was just last week. And he said, You know, I brought him a new product. And he was just like, you know, I don't know. And I, he said, I'll tell you the truth. I want to work with you. I've worked with you in the past. I love working with you. I want to do this. And I think that what that speaks to what you're saying, it's really important to be you because they can read when you're just...
Particularly when you're going to be in an industry for a long time, or an influencer. Well or in that industry, you become a known individual player, if you will, right.
And it'll it'll backfire on you eventually.
We call him The Biz.
quotation mark.
So it's funny that we're bringing this up because I just listened to this podcast where this guy was talking about being a special forces operator, you know, pretty high level and he was talking about that he would be in in like, undercover situations in his response to not getting caught or being found out was just not having conversations because what happens is people trip up themselves in their own lives when you're around them and you ask them the same question over and over well wait, I thought you said this happened there. And that's how people get their like pepper blonde. And like I'm listening to this episode and I was like that that's really interesting. Do I present this persona to people versus like who I actually am right and I used to, right, and I don't really think I do that anymore.
Yeah, I say we all, we all probably I said get caught but we all probably it depending on the emotion of when you're having the conversation at that very moment and what mentality you're in you say something and then you feel different the next day and you say something, how much you've had to drink, okay, there's a lot of factors that go into that.
True and there, and, and, the longer you're in an industry, the more of your personality that's going to shine out like when you're stressed, you know if it or you're under the gun or things don't go right or things go really well. You're going to show an emotional side to either success or failure. And sometimes people have only seen one dynamic which is the win right? Wow he's such a nice guy so but then they haven't seen you yell or get frustrated because the the the fulfillment stage you weren't able to get it done.
Well, and I asked, you know, we were talking about the you know, the homeless you know, talking to a homeless guy at the at the stoplight right. I asked Doc, so what if you're having a bad day? Do you feel so giving and caring? And he's like, no, that guy's having a bad day. If I'm having a bad day, and he knocks on the window, he's having a bad day. If I'm having a good day, he's having a good day. But think about that to the people you're trying to sell to, if you're having a bad day.
I, well I think professionalism says, Look, this isn't about me. This is about...
That is huge in my book.
I don't pull that shit out. And I do it for you. Yeah, but that's not easy for a lot of us to do.
You've got to, you have to go in there with positive. You cannot...
I think that's really easy for you to say yeah, that's not for me. Yeah. If I'm having a shitty day and I've been screwed on three deals and I'm going into the fourth.
You should probably cancel the fourth and just go so scream and...
That's a good idea...
But that's hard though, right?
But it doesn't matter...
Because you're so hungry because you failed at the three.
The worst thing for me the worst thing for me is I sit down I want to you know, you guys know I love to eat. I'm kind of a foodie and I sit down and I'm like, Man, you can do good at this restaurant. And the waitress or the waiter comes up, the server comes up and they're like, how are you? I go Good. How are you? I'm just okay. I'm like, Wait a second. Can I get a different table? Right? Because I didn't come up here.
Why are you ruining my day?
Yeah. You just brought my experience down a notch, inadvertantly.
It's the same thing in business you cannot go in there with I've had a really bad day. I mean, I literally in the last two weeks, I've had something weighing on me, but not, my offices do not know. I'm not gonna do it.
Let's dig into this because I've been working on this theory and I, course you have, yeah, right. This is a work in progress, but let's look at the facts, Poindexter. Well, this is not a this is not a data thing, which is why I'm struggling with it so much. I think that part of the reason why people when whenever you meet someone that you look up to, whether it's like a an influencer, mentor, or someone you've been following or or just even a famous person, right, we put them on such on such a pedestal that they're perfect that we don't know how to deal with that person because they're unapproachable, right? So I think that being vulnerable leads to being approachable, agreed, and leads to rapport, which leads to trust, which leads to better conversations. So if you are walking around and you're never like allowing yourself to struggle or see anybody struggle, right and I see a lot of the stuff in like, the online influencer marketing world of it's okay to talk about struggle in the past. Yeah, right. Man, I had the worst day ever. And then I close some deals and that I mean, I see this crap all the time. But no one wants to admit like, like a moment of weakness whenever you're actually going through it. And I think that,
I'll tell you the difference. There's a huge difference. With clients that I with my best client, and I've had for a long time that we've had rapport. They they know they can know crap. But new people new clients people you're trying to win you better be game on and not I don't think that's the time to bring in the sad story.
So, I think I think I might have just had an epiphany about this. I think I think that when you need the support from your prospect, then that's bad. Yeah, but I think that whenever you are, you are okay, just talking about the second then you can move on lighting. You just really I think that that's the difference, right when you need this person to be like, Oh, man, that really sucks, man. I'm super sorry.
Right. Really? Yeah, that's, that's a hand of weakness right there. Just stay away from it.
I will tell you, and you know, going back to the the actors and actresses of the world. It's all actors now, right?
Yeah, yeah, I think so.
All the actors of the world.
We are in trouble. red flags are flying off the shelf right now because of that statement.
But a while back I thought about this and that,
Back when there were actresses?
And stewardessess?
Me and my wife were having this conversation of like man I you know I look at a Val Kilmer and Tombstone as Doc Holliday and that's like the guy I want to be right that's that badass dude. But then as a person, but but the point of it is is like Val Kilmer is a guy who went to probably an artsy school who's very a creative mindset, I'm so different from the character that he portrays. And by kind of, by kind of pulling that out, it's it's led me into this being able to have an equal business stature with just about anybody because it's like, he's just a freakin guy that went to a college and he spent some time in this job and now he's a CEO of a company and in that mentality of just being able to kind of put everybody on the same level of like you're just a guy right?
And I think that that's why everyone likes like blooper reels so much right? Because you see these people and they are this persona and then like, you see them break right in like breaking videos are fantastic and stuff because it's like, oh, wait, you're not really that Guy.
We get this weird notion that this guy at the top of the company that you're sitting in front of trying to sell to is this like straight-laced, perfect all the time. And I have to do that I can't screw up.
And here's one of the things that if you get really successful, meaning like you're killing it, man, you're making good money, you're climbing the ladder, you have to remind yourself, you're just a guy as well.
Right? Well, that's for sure. Because so how much preparation do you do on yourself before you go into those meetings versus preparing for the guy that you're supposed to meet?
Well, I think that that's kind of the if to to Al's point, like most of his preparation is like don't do this. Don't do this. Don't do this, right, which is like self self-preparation versus, like, I feel pretty confident that I'm gonna...
Who this guy is, what I gotta do to this guy, what I gotta sell.
Well it's a habit too.
But on the flip side of that, when you go back home, no matter how successful you were on the day's endeavors, you still have to be a dad. You still have to be empathetic to household situations and sometimes you can get on in your way. And think why was so good today out there? Why aren't you guys recognizing that? Why? Why am I not just because sometimes you carry that Yeah, to the house. I know best in this, you know, your kids don't know that and your wife doesn't know that, they're like, damn it, just give me the guy that like can fix the sink and wants to put the kids to bed and bathe them and cook. You know?
When I when I think about the guy that I was whenever I was working for you, right, and that was working for you. And then I was waiting tables at night and I hadn't had a baby, right, who was in daycare, and that was super expensive. And Melissa was like going to college and we were trying to figure out like that whole plan. I was under so much pressure like I can't, I would probably want to punch that dude in the face. Like, because I'm sure that there were moments where he was like an asshole and you know, uncaring about anything other than his own stuff and everything else and now like it's hard because I work from home the majority of days. Like like I'll go out and have coffees and stuff like that with like networking people but most of my stuff is done from home and that makes it harder because it's not like I can like, have the drive you know, like Clint talks about his drives and how like that helps him kind of separate, you know, office Clint versus like dad Clint and stuff like that. I have to like cross like a threshold of a doorway, and then not there. Or sometimes Alice will come into the room. And you know, she's like, She's like, Hey, Dad, are you are you, and thankfully, I've coached her to this point of like, Hey, now she comes and says, Hey, are you busy? And I say, Yeah, I need I need five more minutes, and then I'll be with you. But she would come in and be like, let me tell you about Harriet Tubman. And I'm like, I can't do this right now. Right? Like I'm either on a call or I got to get this to like a client or something else like this. And I think I think that the closer you work to home, the harder that stuff is, right? But yeah, when...
When I've worked for home before, and I can tell you that, like I've had my feet kicked up watching, you know, watching TV, cuz I just can, right. And my wife has walked in and been like, what are you doing? Why don't you take the trash out, and I'm like, This is my work day. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, like you don't get to bother me from eight to 330. And it's like,
Regardless of what I'm doing cuz in my own office, I'd kick my feet up, and be watching the TV that's in there..
But the anger is from guilt of not actually being at work, right.
Yeah, absolutely. Right. Someone said this once. The thing that you hate and the person that's not you is the thing that you are struggling with that you're not even aware of.
Yeah, right. Well, that's why I think that, you know, going to that point is like the preparation for all this, when you get angry about something, that's probably because you're not, you're not winning at it, and probably not like really putting all your effort into it, right? That's when people get really self defensive about themselves. Like, hey, hey, just hand me all your stuff so I can enter it in this CRM. Why do you need that shit for you know, they go out because you don't have it. You don't have any. I don't have any data. I'm like, because if you had it all, you just said no problem. I'll send you an email. Right?
That's excellent. That's very true.
Yesterday was Friday, right? And so on Fridays, I've got I've got a I've got a pretty heavy day as far as like working with clients in the morning and then I go to jujitsu at lunch and then I got an afternoon full of clients and someone cancelled and I said okay, cool. So Melissa comes home from picking up our daughter from school and I'm just playing, I'm playing video games and she's like, oh, busy day, huh? Yeah, exactly. You heard the four hours of calls earlier today, right? I mean, like,
I feel like you gotta justify or I just laugh. It's so, can't you just rest in the fact that you know better? And you're like, sure. Now, because I can, right, because because two more hours of this because of your little comment. Thank you very much.
Hey, how was the car that you drove in to pick up the girl? That's that's the shit I would say.
Well, the thing is...
and the private school she goes to.
Want a horse and buggy, I'll get you one.
Once you hit a certain level of success then then sure, right. But like, you know, four, four or five years ago? Oh, yeah, no, I'm just taking a quick break. You know, I've only been here for like five minutes.
Four or five years ago, you couldn't justify getting on the you know, yeah, the downtime now you can and so when you're challenged like that my usual resonse is, because I can. Why are you taking a nap? Because I can. Because I'm tired.
That's huge, right? Because when your accountability and and, you know, just ownership and all this stuff when you're winning, you tend to throw that shit to the wayside because I don't need to do that shit, I'm I'm winning. Yeah, but then that win goes away really quickly usually. Yeah. And quickly can mean a lot of things, could be in a day in your guys's business, could be a year and mine right. You start seeing that downtrend. And it's like shit. How did I get to the wind? Oh, because I did all this work. Yeah, to get there and I didn't maintain it. Right. So sometimes preparation is maintaining accountability is maintaining Sure. Yeah, not always developing something new. It's just just staying on that baseline.
To that point, right. Like whenever whenever the prospect drops that big bomb question at your feet of like, why should I work with you? or Why do you Why do you charge more than these other guys or or whatever? That big question. Is that supposed to like push you into? Like, I don't need to do business with you? Well into it if you're willing to say yeah, like I try to think about the most successful person I know. Right? Because like when you see this right here. You meet Michael Jordan someplace, you know, and you don't know who he is by some weird, he says underwear, right? Yeah. Like, like, what do you do? You know, just this and that or whatever, he's not gonna sit there and validate his accolades and like, why you should know who he is because he has enough confidence that that's how big of a deal? Do you know? Yeah, exactly. If you don't have that level of confidence, when that prospect drops that bomb at your feet, you're going into validation and selling mode. And if you haven't earned that step, then you shouldn't be there.
Yeah, and I would, I would, I would honestly tell you to just get the hell out of that situation.
Yeah, for sure. Figure out the things that you need to do. So that way, you don't feel that pressure.
If that if that's a fear, if that's something that you're going into the meeting that you fear, and you're prepping for it, you haven't done enough before the meeting to get to that point
Well or you haven't been in that situation and enough time maybe so you chill out. You're going to screw it up a handful of times and you'll get better every time somebody throws a curveball at you. And here's what you'll get. You'll get the confidence to sit back for a second ago. interesting that you say that I'm a little confused. You're able to sit back on your heels and say, I really don't know that, I'll have to get back with you, any of those.
And that goes back to what I think we both agreed on of like, over prepping right?
Or if you always feel like you gotta answer it, yeah, like that's a horrible game to play, particularly in my business.
At this point, in my, in my personal career going into a meeting, I'm, I'm so excited about going into a meeting that's just open ended. I really enjoy it, because it's no pressure. I know what we're going to get out of this, but it's gonna be fun.
And the thing is, you have the conversational tools to like, deal with any kind of like uncomfortability or like ambiguity and stuff like that. And I think that that's where you need to train to that point, because you're not going to you're not going to figure it out on the moment. So prime example
So, prime example, next Wednesday, have a meeting with a client that we bid a job like, a couple months ago, right and radio silence and just I just wrote it off, like, done. No, we gotta fill that void, right? And they call back and they're like, hey, on Wednesday, we need to set up this scope review. And, you know, we really like your number. We really like what you guys said and let's go through a little, you know, in depth conversation. And in my mind, I'm like, shit, there's so much pressure on this meeting now, because they sent us like a bullet point list of things to talk about.
Oh, I would think otherwise. In my book, I'm like, it's a freebie, because I wouldn't I didn't have it to begin with.
But the thing is, is like if you told me like, hey, Clint, we want you to come over and talk about this job and just, you know, get a little more comfortable with you. I'm good with that statement that that makes sense to me. But a guy like you John wrote that email I can, I mean to a C, right?
Well they went to the CFO? Absolutely. How do we get this done? What's this look like?
We need to know your financials? We need to know this. And it's a whole bullet point. I'm like, shit, there's so much to fucking prep for and all this stuff.
We've got more than one audience because, you know, it didn't come to that guy. He's called other people.
This is not the guy that I talked to the last three months. So So now there's this pressure to hit this bullet point list perfectly to win this job. Whereas before?
Yeah, because you know, they've gotten other bids. They've been out soon and now just catching up. Wow. That's what the three months was about. Now, we're still in the game. Absolutely.
We were going to go short on this episode, we have not done so. Let's get into The Throwdown.
Yeah, we tried to try to suck that one down, didn't we.
Clint, as a D, for preparation.
Oh, you probably don't naturally have much use for it or you think you don't. That that's probably the as a high corner D that's, you know, unaware that that you have to do this stuff, you really do have to prepare. To go to the extreme levels of like making a spreadsheet and put it on a list and digging shit out of your CRM, that's probably just not going to work for your personality. So I cautioun, even even really digging into that because it's just you're setting yourself up for failure. What you do have is you have a bunch of tools that say I'm going to go win it and if you look at the result, and the the awards that go along with winning this job and what it takes to win it, you'll justify the preparation to what you need to do.
Damn, okay. Al, Team I?
It's going to go back to what I said earlier, write down the things you shouldn't be doing and stay away from them be cognizant of that. The rest of it flows pretty easily. And understand your strength is that upfront bonding, relationship oriented, and if it's a numbers game, have a good backstop. In know that you're gonna have to call them in to talk numbers and be ready for that. Have your game plan down and just stay out of the weeds?
Nice. Alright, Nannette, for S's.
For S's, I um, I think I really have intention with the result. As I leave, I don't want to leave with nothing. I want something when I leave. And I know I don't know if that makes sense to y'all. But I have an intention of I have plans on if this doesn't happen. I want this to happen. Okay, so, I don't know if that makes sense to y'all.
So it sounds like you're taking some time to like actually inspect what you expect and figure out
I don't want to walk away with nothing. Yeah.
All right. Now I think that's awesome. For Team C, it's super easy to over prepare, right? You want to be the smartest person in the room, you want to have all the answers. And that's a lot of pressure to take into a conversation. It typically doesn't help you. Remember, when you're speaking to someone else, and you're telling them something, you can't learn anything, right? Questions are going to be the way you learn the way you build rapport and everything else. You don't have to know everything about the person that you're talking with and their business because that's just impossible. And you're gonna have better conversations whenever you can admit that you don't know something about their business. So, you know, much to like Al's point, right, figure out what is necessary for you to not do. You don't need to have all the answers. You don't need to be the smartest guy in the room. And for me personally, the thing that I've learned really, really recently is that there are things that are not really work related, but self care, things that allow me to feel better about being unprepared, right? You know, and part of that is jujitsu, right because like I want to go get crushed in jujitsu. So it's kind of like this humbling moment so I can I can live in that mindset when I'm dealing with some And I have to admit, what do you mean by that, which makes me really uncomfortable at a base level. So figure out those things and they and there might not be necessarily a part of your preparation but just part of like your program, weekly, monthly or whatever, that allows you to feel okay with not being correct and go enable that, you know, whether it's self care whether it's, you know, training or whatever it is. So, yeah, that's what I got for C's. Awesome, fantastic.
This is a pretty great episode, was not short, like we thought it was going to be but you know, we get we get fired up, went off, and exactly, absolutely. So if you know someone else in sales who should be listening to this, we kind of think everybody should be but you know, we're a little bit biased, share it with them. We're on all social media platforms, everything is at Sales Throwdown. If you don't know where you are, or if you've taken one of the free assessments but you didn't really think it was deep enough. Contact Us assessment@salesthrowdown.com and if you leave a review, we will read it out loud on the show, give you a shout out. So enjoy the show. Everybody will see everybody soon. Thanks