If you haven't started planning for the fourth quarter —and for next year!— now is the time. This week, we're talking about how we're planning for the end of the year and how fourth quarter planning affects next year's process.
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Yes, it's that time of year again. We're in the fourth quarter, and if you haven't started planning yet, now is the time!
Since this year has been so challenging and unexpected, this fourth quarter is a little different from any other ones we've had. We're not just planning for the quarter, we're planning for the next year in a situation where we don't really know what that's going to look like.
With each of us in different industries, roles, and lengths of time in those roles, we each have a slightly different approach to assessing and planning for this quarter and the next four. Hopefully, you'll find some insight for your own planning from at least one of us in this Sales Throwdown episode.
If you watch this and you still have questions about fourth quarter planning or preparing for next year, send us a text at the number above. Or reach out if you have any other questions about sales or would like more info about taking a DISC personality assessment. Texting is the best and quickest way to reach us.
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Let’s get ready to Throwdown!
Welcome to the show everybody, Sales Throwdown. We are back talking about fourth quarter, right end of the year. Yeah, Clint has already grimacing Christmas Thanksgiving. Nobody wants to talk to salespeople. Nobody wants to spend anything. The only exclusion to this is Nannette and Al whose, whose finally everybody's deductibles is finally paid off. So this is their busy season. So it's, it's interesting to see the differences in how this stuff goes. So we want to kind of talk about, like, where are we, in relation to what what we thought was gonna happen? Right, especially with all everything that's changed this year. And what's your plan between now and December 31? Clint, what do you got, man?
It's gonna be huge.
Shut up, shut up.
No, on in all seriousness, you know, the dreaded fourth quarter right for most people. The other two on this podcast, they probably freaking love it. For most people. Fourth quarter is just dreadful man. Because you got people going on vacation for weeks at a time no decision makers are, are there and ready readily available? Even even in my own office? I don't even know that I can order office supplies after October 1, right? It's like no, no more red pens. We're not spending a dime on all the numbers figured out for the rest of the year. January one come talk to me, we'll get you some red pins, you know, like it. It but the thing is, is that's that's most people, right? Because, man, your projections you project all year, you project all year. And at some point, those have to become real financially, right? Because you have to, most people are dealing with a corporate entity where they have to project upwards, right? So
Well, you hit it. It's accountability time, right? Here's what we spent, we now only have this much more to go. So we can project what that looks like. And sales is either exceeding or lagging. And now what do we do about it?
Yep. So you know, for me, I always say, especially in construction, q1, and q2, and q3, those are your months to sell for book and burn of the relative year that you're in, right. And everybody's on a little bit different fiscal year, some people go January one, some people are over September, at the end of September. But I will tell you that it's really hard to book jobs, at least in construction, or any long lead time business. It's really hard to book jobs now in October, November, December, and actually burn the revenue off the sale that you made in those three months, right. So q4 is, is usually in a good year. Now we're not talking 2020 because God help us all this this year sucks. But that that sale is made for 2021 going into the new quarter one q2 q3 building backlog, right. And, you know, we probably don't get down in the nitty gritty of a lot of sales terminology on this show. But that backlog is so, so important to you know, you talk about you want to do sales, you know, $20 million dollars in sales or $20,000 in sales in 2021. It starts in, it starts about halfway through the year before, right and, and now we're coming to that point where everything you touch, everything that you're negotiating. Now, by the time you get the deal done by the time you actually start to burn revenue, it's in the next it's in the next fiscal year. Right? So it's very tough, because you'll feel your when you sell $10 million. Right? But it's not, it doesn't it doesn't count almost right to the year that you're in. So this is tough times. Right? And all the mistakes that you have now are all the gas that you have now, or your lack of participation quarters ago, not today.
So like as a sales leader, right, and in managing a team of people and you know how difficult it is? How do you how do you motivate people to go out and do their activities, do their follow ups do these things when, when you know, in the end on some part of your mind, you're like, Man, this is this sucks. Like like,
Yeah, that's tough, right? Because this year because of Corona. q2 was a typical q4, right? Because q2 was nobody would spend a dime, nobody was invest in anything. And you can probably rewind these episodes all the way back till March, April, May was talking about just like holy shit, what are we going to do? But typically, q1, 2, and 3 are, you know, you you really, for at least me as a sales leader or salesperson in general. I set my goal in three months, not four, right? I set them q1 through q3 because q4 is prep for the next year. Like I I just kind of switched that role in my head. Because I'll even show you like, all my charts for sales in a typical year, q4 is it's pennies compared to the rest of the months. I'm not focused on selling and burning money in q4. I'm worried about selling back like anything as a bonus in q4 in my book, because once November hits, you got hunting seasons, you got Thanksgiving, you got Christmases you got, you know, just every holiday, New Year's people are going to take off a couple weeks. All those decision makers go away till about middle of January, in most businesses, so, you know, I really focus on doing everything and one, two and three. It's just the business I'm in.
So do you do you double down on training? Like Like, like, what? Because I know you're planning for the next year and stuff like that. But like, you know, you have people under you in there. And this was beginning backlog. I mean, how do you thread that needle?
Oh, I, nobody else knows that goal, I guess, the that we're flatlined in the end q4, right. So everybody thinks the goal is still the same as it was the last three months, the last five months. Right? So still pressing on because everything is a push, I, everything you can get go get it right. The only differences is that I won't take lower margin work in q4, like I would in q2, and 3, 1, 2, and 3, right? Because I need revenue for the year. So for me I book a little bit, I hold out a little bit more, right? So hey, does that project really fit us? Does it really fit something because here's what you're selling, you're selling future work, right? And when may of 2021 pops up, but you took a let's say, 3% gross margin job in in October, because you wanted to sell something. Now your accountants and your construction teams or your VP of operations, they have to deal with a loser in a profitable year. And that's tough, right? So I always focus on anything I sell in q4 to be a very profitable in the year coming. Right. And I'm a little more, I hold out a little bit more.
That's really interesting. Very interesting.
I mean, yeah, they make sense. I mean, yeah, that's, that's an interesting observation. Yeah, john, nailed it on on our side of the fence. You know, this is when people don't want to go into another year with a big, staring into big deductible. So if you got a big ticket item, or even just, you know, lab work, and some of the things that we get in the frontline clinics, they get it done now, and, you know, COVID put a little bit of a damper on us, but it actually COVID from a clinical standpoint, you know, we stayed busy, we just couldn't do surgeries, because they were, you know, of the elective nature. And they needed the space for other things. But Nan has seen one of her doctors really get on this high horse. I mean, she's got a, you know, one of her accounts is, is going gangbusters. So, you know, we anticipate that low back pain and spinal injury, musculoskeletal injuries, they didn't go away, they just kind of got put on the shelf. And they put a bandaid on them till they could get to better times. And now I think it's going to be the hustle and bustle that we you know, we've seen in the past.
Do you think you're going to see less of a rush this holiday season compared to like what you normally do? Because so many people might have been doing less and not hitting those deductibles? Are you concerned about that?
Um, you know, there is a little bit of a concern about that. But I know we have, here's our biggest problem right now. And I faced it today with not having loved ones in the hospital with you for extended stays on bigger, bigger events. And case in point, we've got a patient who, you know, she wants her husband to be able to spend the night she'll be in the hospital for about a week. And we're having some logistic issues because the number of people because as you bring more surgeries in, you have more people in that building. And so it exceeds the capacity. You know, from an infectious disease standpoint, the closer we are together, the more likely you're going to have COVID along with staff and other other infectious diseases. And so the the hospital's being pretty stringent about those measures. And some patients are backing out they don't want to spend a week in the hospital by themselves or on Zoom talking to their loved ones. So yeah, there's a new dynamic out there. We're just doing our best to work around it.
I do think I don't know you know, who can predict but it it does appear we're going to have more cases coming with I mean, I don't know, Dr. Daniel, you're probably the person to...
More cases of what, COVID, COVID cases okay, because we call surgeries cases as well.
I just think that we potentially could go through another April. You know, again, I don't know but which will make all of our business go slower as well. So,
Yeah, and I would guess in the healthcare field that you probably had a lot of people over the summer get laid off from their product or their jobs. So you probably lost a lot of health care too to people that just normally in a normal year, like, Oh, I'm just going to get that surgery because I can, and they can't this year, right?
We are. When you look at our patient demographics, we're in the Dallas Fort Worth metroplex. So we see a lot of people who are in the airline business, and the airline business, October one, you know, just legislated off, what was anticipated 39,000 employees across a couple of different airlines that all fly out and have representation, not only in the Metroplex, but in our patient population. So, you know, that is a concern, because we rely on, you know, we do some cash work, but it's very small. So yes, we have, you know, lots of police officers, lots of firemen, we have, you know, a lot of people that work from home, if there's a you know, if there's a trickle effect into our area, we're gonna face some of that too. Our patients just won't be able to afford the health care that they need, because they're uninsured.
And when you're like, when you're thinking about that, like, how much of a revenue drop off, do you think stems from, you know, the the people being laid off and people not hitting their deductibles? I mean, like, do you think it's half for this last quarter?
I think at this point, it's it's not there. I mean, we're seeing business as usual. But we now as of today, have airline employees that just got furloughed, now do they carry their their insurance package with them, some of them are given that opportunity. And some of it say, hey, you will care these benefits why we furlough you, we're just not doing payroll, because the federal government didn't bail us out again. And that so depending on, it's going to be different for every industry. But I can tell you that I I, I think I see a little bit of a slow down when I'm around town, I see cars up and down. But I ate lunch out today in the place wasn't nearly as pretty popular restaurant by one of my clinics, and met met my provider and a student that's with her. And I really did say, Hey, this is usually a definitely a more happening place around lunchtime. I mean, it made for a better meeting for us. But I was I was surprised. So I think I'm seeing a little bit of that.
Nan, you know, speaking, because you're doing much more like the frontline stuff, right? These days? Well, what kind of stuff? Are you seeing, like this fourth quarter compared to like other stuff? Is it harder to get into the these docs, it is a much more distance? And that's easier, like, like, what are you seeing?
Obviously, you, you know, there's huge distance, a lot of offices are not seeing anybody. Um, but you know, the biggest thing is, and I think with sales, this holds true, you have to have a process, you have to adjust as, as things change throughout, there's always going to be change, you know, you just have to figure out what your process is, and work it well. And I don't know if that's a little evasive. But, you know, with my, I just have this system, and I am planning on ramping it up, you know, just really seeing that I'm going to be really busy for the last quarter. But as I stated, it could easily go away, you know, and then you just have to come up with other things. And I think that that's really important for all of us to look at, as our processes change because of what's going on, you know, but you've just got to continue on. And, you know, ramp up for now, Clint. I didn't know that Clint had this last quarter being like really difficult. That that's a completely different, I think, than all of us. I don't know, John, what is your last quarter like?
Um, so I've kind of fallen into a couple of very unique situations that I can't really talk about on here yet. But um, you know, I'm going to be building out some bigger teams and some bigger processes, and they have a lot of urgency behind them. So it right now seems very, very good for this last quarter, right? I'm trying to one of the guys was like, hey, you're kind of hard to get hold of and I said, Yeah, I've lots of meetings, I network a lot and you know, I need to keep my prospecting up and he goes, Well, I would like you to be a little bit more available. And I was like, Well, I would like some pay, right? Because if you want me to be more available then then that means I need to shut down some of my prospecting or at least dial it back and that makes me a little bit uncomfortable because sometimes these deals don't go through. Right? Which made me incredibly uncomfortable. Like in that moment, because, you know, I like the guy, I like the things he's talking about and, and stuff like this, but you know, I'm just being real, right? Because when I turn it off, right it that the gap is not this week or next week it's later on and stuff like that, especially depending upon how long it might have it turned off for some of these projects. And so now we're in conversations about, you know, how do I get compensated to shut all this stuff down, so that way I'm more accessible and easier to get a hold of, and, you know, put in more work into these projects.
So, but you know, and not not to shit on you, John, because don't take it that way. But you also haven't had an established baseline year over year yet. Right? So. So you're, you're, you're in growth mode, right. And a lot of companies fall into this, fall into this category, startup company, or, you know, they're there. Let's say they're on year two, or three. And they're in that constant growth, because you know, sometimes in those first two or three years, every metric you look at is growth, right? But until you establish that year over year baseline, maybe for your five and six, you can compare it to, to the last where had 30, let's say, Okay, let's just say I did 3 million last year, and I did 3.1 this year, now you're starting to establish a baseline going into q4 that you can project off of. Until you get there. It's really tough. And and, and one of the one of the small mistakes that a lot of startup companies I think make is that, Oh, I see huge growth in q4. So next year, you see it on shows like Shark Tank? Yep. All the time. Last year in q4, I did 600,000 in sales. And it's like, Okay, well, you know, what's, what's year over year? Oh, boy, if I project that curve, I'm gonna do 6 million over the next five. It's like, okay, but you haven't ever hit a baseline here. Right? So while I'm not trying to shit on you, John is speaking, speaking to the startups out there, you have to have some metric, which is a baseline to establish a future off of it.
Clint brings up a really good point, like my version of my business a year ago is dramatically different than how I'm thinking about it now, right? I mean, I mean, a year ago, I was just really focused on process build outs, and CRM build outs and everything. And in the past year, I've shifted to much more of a coach a much more of like helping, like bring on commission only salespeople for people with good, you know, lead gen and stuff like that, which was not really things that I really planned on doing for the bulk of my revenue and the bulk of my business. And now that I've got these new projects going on, it's like, Okay, what do I need to do now, because finding these closers for people is incredibly high touch, so it's not really scalable. And I'm kind of the only person who can do it easily. So we're going to, I'm doing one last closer build right now that and then after that, this will be the last one. So what what I'm going to do is I'm going to take the knowledge that I put people through into a course and then it's like, cool, I don't do this anymore. But you know, for two grand, you can buy this course, it's got everything about how to build the process, how to vet people, assessments, everything else like that. So that makes it a little bit more automated. And we're going to be shifting more towards doing these live CRM builds, right? Because there, there was a guy and he wasn't using one and I said, Hey, he'd been doing a lot of sales, training and stuff. And so he kind of had his feet under him, as far as like thinking about it the way that we talked about it in everything. And we did a live CRM build, right? And he was like, This isn't gonna work for me. And I was like, if we can customize it for what your needs are, would you use it? He's like, yeah, I'll give it a shot. And so this guy's an outside field Rep. He does Commercial Roofing. And so we hopped on a 90 minute call, I did it live right there in front of him. And he got to see me building it out. So he got to see some reps of it. And afterwards, I said, Hey, you know, I didn't charge you very much for this. What are your thoughts? He's like, well, I thought it was really good. I said, What would you pay for it now. And he was like, I'd easily pay $1,000 for this, I was like, cool. So that means I can peg it at 750, I can find and train someone to do that part of the interview and the build out really, really easily. And then after that, it's just maintenance and check ins, which isn't really hard to build out. But I'm going to be building a lot of sales teams over the next couple of years. So my focus has got to be really into recruiting and building a bench and like going more into process and data and spreadsheets and stuff like that. So that way there's clarity for the other people involved.
Yeah. Which which is, which is almost tough for you, right? Because that's, that's really impressive. But as a as a C for you, you personally, as a business owner and a business leader, like you, you need data, right. And right now you have building data, but you don't have baseline data. And like for you that might be Honestly, it might be five years until you figure out that business model that works or the one or two business models that work. And so, you know, luckily for you, you don't have to report to some big, you know, publicly traded corporation on why you're going to do this one year versus the next. I mean, I mean,
Well, but Clint, but Clint, agree with Glenn. I mean, you know We all report to our families we all report to our bill collectors. We know there's there's accountability. And you know, Clint, you brought up an interesting point about talking about baselines. My god, if you just started in any industry this year, or Wow, what what a year to try to figure out, it's just got to be horrible out there. But you know, but Well, it was going so well, then it didn't and but then it sort of trickled back. Whoa, confusion.
but technically, coming out of q4, if this is your first year, in some business, some startup some sales job that you never had before, this is the greatest baseline you could ever have,
Hey, you survived this year, man, the rest of them have to get easier, they, good point, they have to.
You have it if you had a job in February, and you retained that job as a salesperson, leader, whatever, through all of this, and you make it the January one of 2021, you have the best baseline to project off of, of any person on the planet.
So get a load of this in my industry, because we go into the OR, and we take nuts, bolts and screws. You know, just like you would see at a hardware store. We've seen a shuffle of middle management, you don't know my phone is Hey, I'm now with the right. I've got stuff I'm leaving here to go review because I just got a text. Hey, did you get a look at the instrumentation? And I know these people and I do feel for them? I really do. They've been uprooted. They've had to go find other jobs. And you know, they're they're not the vice presidents. They're the regional managers right that are have territories. My goodness, it's uh, yeah, it's been been eye opening how, how expendable that position is in many, many companies. And
That's funny. You mentioned that because I, I deal with a lot of the same stuff, right? Oh, I used to work for this supplier. Now I work for this supplier. And oh, remember when I used to talk shit about all those people? Well, now I work for those and we're the best? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, so I knew what those phone calls a lot. I always laugh because when somebody calls me says, Hey, just so you know, I moved over to this company. I said, that's great, man. Hey, what's the name and number of the rep that took your spot? And there's always no answer, right?
Well no, it, no, get a lot of this, that we have to rely on that. And in my industry, I will say something. I work with some sharp people, you know, healthcare has some really intelligent people in it. So from the vendor side, we'll text and I'll say, Hey, I'm needing tissue, right, which is dead body parts, and they just don't live on the shelf. You sort of have to find somebody who just got in a car accident yesterday, and you know, skinning down processing and getting ready to roll. Oh, man, it's the beautiful industry. And I saw I'm texting like, hey, I need five cc's of stem cells got a case over and they're like, well tags that too. And so they shoot me back the person that they had to turn the sale over to? Oh, wow. Because I mean, it's just on speed dial man. You just it's like drug deals. Hey, I need this this volume here for a case. And I don't think it's sitting in their freezer. So you know, literally there they Yeah, it's been kind of hard to get all these new text numbers. Then I got what's hard is I got to plug them in my phone because if I forget, then I got it. Luckily, the chain is still there most of the time, because you don't want to ask a second time for the replacements number. Horrible.
Insult to injury. Holy crap,
Horrible. Oh,
Man, I know you got canned and I didn't care enough last time. But can you give me can give me the number again.
Oh, and what's even worse, though, sometimes, you know, they still haven't gotten a job. I mean, I we sit here and laugh about the nuances of it. But some of them I'm sort of checking their Facebook feed because I mean, we all stay on social media. And I'm you know, because they would be putting it out there the ones that land someplace else are letting everybody know you know, they're putting it back out there. And there's there's a number of folks that just haven't haven't spoken up.
So, I'm asking you this out because you're you're you're the guy who I who I always think about is looking for the the opportunity angle right? So if all these people are getting laid off and some of them don't have jobs like like, but they have relationships and they've got connections and stuff like do you feel any oh I should pounce on this person and get them in here under mine and...
No, and I'm gonna be brutally honest there the middle management you know, they are they they're they're they're not connected to accounts, they're connected to people with accounts and we all still have jobs because we have people we're working with. They were running salespeople, right. And they decided they didn't need any redundancy a vice president can do what a regional manager does, right? No job security guys, boom, out the door. Good luck. And so this up, you know, the vertical, you're you're stacking more on the guy above them and you're keeping you're keeping the best and the rest are just you know, going.
Hey, I am I am absolutely in that same exact position where it's like, just today, right? Two vice presidents and a president sitting in a room estimating a project. You know, that's that's what we've come down to right we will get this done. When we get to the point where we cannot fulfill this need, then we'll have to hire again. But we cut all those people that did that work, right. And a lot of it was out of necessity, a lot of it. And we talked about this a long time ago, a lot of it was out of necessity, but a lot of it was out of poor performance, right. And when those people leave, and some of them to your point, John and doc. Like some of those people you see that have left. And business goes on as usual. It's really hard to hire somebody else or hire that person. When nothing fell, nothing, nothing fell off the map. Right. And so, you know, the, the real key to that is, and we're getting way off topic here with the whole q4 thing but you know, when you leave an industry, somebody will always fill your gap. You're not irreplaceable. I don't think anybody else plants irreplaceable, to a certain extent. No, but not you? Not even me. We are recording this right? Yes, yes, first first aid. But when people when when you leave a organization fired, you quit whatever. And they don't take they don't even skip a beat. You weren't you weren't supposed to be there anyway. Right? That's just
And remember, in good times, industries get heavy, right? I mean, companies get heavy. And so it's easy to, you know, hit that mid management during prosperous times. But whenever things start to go south or the economy gets rough, who are you keeping? Well, you got to have guys at the warehouse loading boxes and getting shipping out the door, got to have some manufacturing, you got customer service. It's the people that manage right, there aren't the doers. They're the overseers. Well, we've got a couple layers of overseeing. And so yeah, the some of these these people are, and they're good people don't get me wrong, they'll pick up the phone call you back. They just weren't a key figure in getting the business done. And the business is going to stay where it's at. Because there's not a whole lot of people in my industry that are shifting at this time. They're staying with what they know get some through the end of the year. And and so Nan's shaking her head, so she she knows what I'm coming from here, you just don't go with a new race horse the last quarter, right? That you know, the wheels are in motion. And so you got to be on the train. Or if you're off the train, you just got to wait till the next go round.
Yeah, I mean, you know, I've been told over a dozen times, you're gonna regret, when you get rid of me, you're gonna regret this. Ah, I've heard that so many times. And you know what, you know, what's funny is? I might, maybe that's a possibility. Because I'm getting rid of you. It's a very small possibility. Right? It's an in. I hope you make it man. And I always say that, I hope you go out and hope you kill it. I hope you prove me wrong. But I, it just doesn't happen, right? There's a reason that you're in the situation that you're in. There's a reason that we're getting rid of you. There's a reason I'm getting rid of you. There's a reason I've gotten getting rid of right? No, I'm not putting the past myself. There's a reason that I'm not in the certain spots. So, you know, kind of off topic to the quarter 4 thing, but always important.
No, I know I think it's germane because this this quarter fours got a few nuances that we haven't seen before. Right? And, and again, we're all learning to adapt in the business environment. Because if you think it stays the same, you wake up in the lay of the land, you know, you're kidding yourself. Things change. This is a change that we all have to adapt to. It's one we have to get through. I would even curl up in a ball and just you know, suck your thumb. I don't think so. I think you made some change.
I think this change has is making everyone smarter and stronger. I think it makes you go oh crap, I was being lazy or Oh crap, I really wasn't playing this or doing this as well as I should be. And it and that's why you get rid of certain people because you're like, man, I was just being lazy. I didn't I don't really know if we needed that person and you know, I think thank goodness. There's a What is it a silver silver lining to this because I do hear over I've seen it myself. How I've gone Okay, I can't do this. And then I go God, Why wasn't I doing this before the, you know I bet we could all find an example of that in this situation.
So I, I have a question for Clint, I'd like to back up a second, you were talking about the fact that whenever you have to let somebody go, you, you really sincerely wish them well, right. And we've all known people who have been laid off or made a change and getting just like, ridiculed. You know, there's a guy who we all know who's actually under, like injunction and court order, because he left his current company, and, and was like, Hey, I'll put in the two weeks if you need me to, they said, Yes. And now they're accusing him of ripping files and everything else like this. I mean, it's kind of a big, you know, shit show, but where does that come from? Right? Because, like, I don't think that that's necessarily part of the D, D like, go to mindset, you know, like, I mean, because you know, you talk about cutting the fat and not being the most emotionally driven person on here. How do you how do you do that in the moment?
Well, but didn't it make good sense to do that job?
No, no, no, hold on, hold on, because I think it makes the most sense on the planet, right? Like, like, I never understand when whenever a boss is pissed that somebody has an opportunity that to improve, right? Sure. And we've all seen it. We've all known people who were like, man, I went in to go like, tell my boss about this opportunity. And they just treated me like shit afterwards.
So two, two and a half months ago, my one of the best employees that I've ever had the privilege of working around, came in one day handed me a two weeks notice. This was two and a half months ago. One of the best estimators I've seen in the business yet. And and I and I was a little shocked to the point of like, Hey, man, you know, we got this team turned around, we got this building, I've laid off all these people with you in the projection to always be here. We've talked about your five year plan, like this is, holy shit, this is a surprise. I was never cynical about that. I wish I absolutely still to this day, wish him the best luck. Go get it, man. Because the move wasn't out of hatred. It wasn't out of this place sucks. I'm gonna go find something better, never taunted me. It was a life move for him as a better opportunity. He wanted to be around his kids and in Colorado. Like there was a whole lot of things right? Never not not an ounce of, of pissed off or or anything like that, or hatred towards the guy. Good luck, man. To answer your question, John, when when I say Hey, man, I hope I hope you don't get it. I really do. They're coming from the D personality side. There's a lot of me that says that because I know you won't.
Oh,
oh, man. That's cruelty edits, fine.
It's it. I don't mean that to shit on people. I just really mean like, if you if all of a sudden now you're gonna get a wake up call and go kill it for somebody else. Like, you could have done that here for the last five freakin years. And you didn't write. So now what's going to change? Maybe I motivate you to change. But that's somebody else's business. That's your business. Right? That's not mine anymore. So wish you the best luck have fun. You know, see in the trenches. It's always my answer.
That's, that's really interesting to me.
Let me tell you something. I actually talked about this today. At no point Have I ever just blatantly just shit on somebody and their family? Because, look, I got family, I understand what it means to live paycheck to paycheck very well. If somebody shit on me today, you know, that would have a huge impact. Oh,
Well, and and in these industries, you know, people who leave one position will show up again in another position, then that can be a positive experience for you that they're now a competitor. But they have some loyalty to the fact that you've showed them some kindness and been fair with them. You don't even have to show them kindness. It's usually we're fair. And you weren't a dick. that pays dividends down the road, even in a you know, Dallas, Fort Worth area. Because, you know, we all kind of walked the same hallways if we stay in that industry.
Well, the circles are smaller than we think.
Don't forget, there's a big difference between getting fired and let go. Oh, sure. Sure.
Yo, yes, sure.
Sure. So when I let go of people, I put all the factors in mind of, you know, hey, look, you've probably done this pretty well, you've worked your butt off. It just didn't work out. Hey, you know, I'm going to cover you for the next couple months while you get the opportunity to go find a job. You'll probably make out like a bandit because you're going to find a job in three or four days. I just can't have you on my payroll anymore because it doesn't make sense. That's let go. Right? Getting fired is you've done everything that you can do to lose your own job. Right. You are nothing for me. Right? So there's a difference there.
No down. And when we run into that, sure.
So to get back kind of kind of another q4 thing, right? I'm curious for you guys, when, when you're thinking about this here, and we're, you know, still trying to figure out what the new normal is, even though I hate saying that that phrase, how do you go about your planning for next year? Do you? Go ahead, Clint. What do you got? Oh,
yeah, so don't take your bait. If you've been in business for, let's say, five to 10 years, or maybe even longer, the better, right? You've seen your trend lines come through 2008, nine and 10. Right? This isn't really that much different. As far as economy-wise, I agree, if you've been in business through not 2008 2008 was the cause, right? 2009 10. And 11 was the effect. If you've had a business that goes through that that's the baseline you need to model this year going into 21, 22, 23? That's my suggestion, right? But if you don't have that, if you don't have that, if you don't have that, here's what I tell you. In 2018. And I'm hoping you've been in business that long, because really, honestly, if you haven't been in business since 2018, your metrics and your baselines. Really just they're just not there regardless, right? So you take the average in your best few months. So you can go monthly, go quarterly, right, take your baselines off quarters, not 2020 versus 2019, take your quarters and get a baseline. And I'm kind of getting into the nerdy version of the C's on the KPIs and goals here. But But hey, look, I like them to right because that's, I have to report to somebody way higher than me with projections, and graphs and charts and explain all these numbers. So I get it very well. My suggestion is that if you made it through business through 2008, 9, 10 11, that's your model for going from 2021, 22, 23. If you don't have that, look at your best, look at your best that you've had. And the worst, I'm just going to guess that it's been in the last three or four months in most businesses. And and honestly wipe those off the face of the planet. Just wipe them out of there, wipe them out of your goals, wipe them out of everything that you're looking for, because they're only going to drag your confidence down your morale down. And really honestly, there's nothing you could do about it. Get them out of your head, get them get them go and move forward. Right? What do I need to do to make January of 21? successful? And hit that hit that mark?
So Clint for you, can you mind sharing what what your quota was for this year, annual quota?
18 and a half million.
18 and a half million. So when you're thinking about next year?
24, why 24? Because the year before that we did 32. And the year before that we did 30. And the year before that we did 31. So that's why I'm saying right, that baseline reading tells me I can do way more than a 16% growth because of a bad year. Right. But here's the thing is that 2019 for this organization that I'm in now, I've already outsold. Now that may not make sense to a lot of you right? That Hey, we did 30 million in sales. But my goal is less but I did. So here's the thing, you're looking
You're looking at a net number, right?
Net, right? And backlog, roll net backlog rolls into those years. So so basically why we did 30 last year, we actually had a badass 40 or $50 million year, the year before, right? So that's why I say you got to go back and dip into those baselines from years past, you cannot just be stuck year to year, you can't do it.
And the really thing. The thing that I think is important there, right is that you can sell a lot and have no margin. Right? And it sucks, right? You can sell a little and have really great margin. And it's great, right? It doesn't necessarily I love all these people who love to brag about like these big revenue numbers, right? Oh, yeah, I did a million dollars. Okay, at what percentage?
What's your ROI?
Yeah, what you know why nobody wants to nobody wants to talk about that, you know, there, there's this group, and they're always bragging about how much they spend on ads for their clients. You know, we spend half a million dollars in Facebook ads, like every, every month, we know what we're talking about. Do you? Like Like, like, like that number doesn't indicate that you know what you're talking about, right? Because you could be setting half a million dollars a month on fire for your clients in and not getting anything out of it. But you know, so for those who might not know, right, there's a difference between gross and net. You know, gross revenue is just money coming in the door. Your net revenue is like after your expenses and everything. And Clint being at the position he is in, you know, Al being like an owner, myself being an owner and I don't know how much Nan has to deal with this, but you know, probably a little bit. The quality of the deals that you bring in is as important as the number of deals right and the revenue attached to them. You know, if you can...
Now, and here's where you can get in trouble with that, particularly if you're a small businessmen such as myself, you'll rob from Paul to pay Peter. Right? So you it's cash flow, which is king. But at the end of the day, if there's no profit, guess what, Al is poorer than the poorest guy in his office, right, the guy that makes the least actually makes more than me. So you end up with this hole, again, back to the margins and back back to your, you know, what your expenses are relative to getting that project? Or that sales done. Right. So, you know, you got to factor in all of those things and account for the expenses it takes to lock a deal in.
Yeah. And I don't really think I cared a whole lot about that, what before I worked for myself, right? Like, like, looking back on some of my thought processes and mindsets whenever I was working, not so much for you Al, because like, I think I'm starting to shift out of that after you that, like, when I was working at the bank and selling cell phones and stuff, you know, I was just looking at it from like, a numbers perspective, I wasn't looking at it from like, a, like a net revenue. Is this actually profitable kind of perspective, you know, and I feel like, I feel like once you've got some control, right, like, like, even even in like a situation where you're building your own book of business, you start looking at all of that stuff kind of differently, right? Like, you know, sure. Well, you know, you should Yeah, you know, I can invest a whole lot of time to make 100 bucks, but maybe, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Nan, for your stuff, right? Like, what are your What are your thoughts about your numbers this year versus like, what are your planning for next year?
Well, this has been a good year, um, I think, for me, I have to just get more business, it's not, you know, what I'm saying? You can't just create, you can't have certain accounts just increase. So I either need to bring in more accounts or other things from my bag. So that's basically what I look at. And as far as numbers, it's, it's been a good year, I think next year will be better. But awesome, we're always optimistic, aren't we?
Yeah. Well, hopefully, right? I mean, I think you have to have a certain level of optimism to be in either sales role, right?
I was gonna say, I think I think, you know, man, man, and you guys are both right, you know, optimism is is the emotion in the mindset, but you also have to, you know, disconnect from that and really do a cortical run at your business, how this year is affected you both positive and negative. And how you capitalize on both of those, those those equations, the negative side of this thing, you know, don't let it get too involved in your head, but recognize it. Things that have gone well stayed the course during during this pandemic, you know, if you got anything to latch on to latch on to that and then built built you know, let that be your base and build from there.
And like we said earlier, you know, learning what what happens if you are have any success at this point in this in 2020? Then learn from that and improve 21 through that.
Yeah, absolutely. We lost Clint a minute ago his phone was dying and so we thought we were gonna make it through but we lost Clint, which is you know, it is what it is. But I think we should I think that's a good place to wrap up. Do you guys, Al, you have any last words around? Actually I will wait for my turn but Al go you know, anything
You have something to say before we did?
Well no, like like I just put it in my in my in my section, sounds good.
Yeah, fourth quarter on a unique year. I mean, it's going to meet the that statement is going to mean something different to everybody that's listening and, and a part of this equation. We're going to get through this. I know that the you know, there's there's been some angst there's been some emotion that's been put towards this. I feel for people that have had been displaced in any capacity when it comes to you know, their job or their their situations financially because of this. Weather the storm, stay the course. And you'll get through this. We always do. We always do.
Awesome. Nannette.
Very simple. There's always a silver lining, but everything has a silver lining. So just, you know, look for the positive.
Yeah, I think Clint would say something about, you know, go win at something. But you know, for me I'm not a big rah, rah guy, right? Like, I'm not the most bubbly, motivationally driven person, you know, on the show. But, uh, you know, to Al's point, this has been an odd year for everybody, if you were still in the game, like, celebrate that success, right? Take a second to think about all the people, right? You know, we've been talking about on the show people being laid off and furloughed and fired and everything else like this, if you're still in the game, even if you're struggling in this, that's a huge win. All right, take a moment to appreciate that, you know, whether it's in your journal or however you however you want to go about that. But then also be thinking about what you need to adjust for next year. Because, you know, we don't really know exactly what next year is going to look like. So, you know, celebrate the wins, but just Also be aware that, you know, it might not be the normal January, so make sure you're planning for that.
Awesome, awesome, guys, thanks so much for hopping in. Sorry that we lost Clint. I'm sure he's probably drinking some beer and thinking about some golf. But um, if you're in sales, and you're not sure how you're gonna last year, q4, right? You're not sure how you're gonna make it. We're gonna let Clint back in who apparently figured something out. So, you know, if you're, you know, struggling in q4, you know, you're not sure what to do what which end is up you know, that's, it's pretty common. You know, there's lots of people in that same boat. Text us 817-345-7449. Reach out, ask questions. We'll talk about it here on the show. If you're comfortable with that. We'll keep it anonymous if that's what you would prefer. But, you know, there's no real way to do it all by yourself. What's up, buddy? You figure it out on on? Like, how to plug in your phone to a charger? Is that what happened?
I had so I had so much good stuff to say but y'all are gonna miss it.
Oh, maybe next time if you can figure out how to not hang up the phone. That'd be awesome. Deal. Deal. Alright, guys. Thanks so much for tuning in. Please Like and Share. If you're watching this on YouTube. Please subscribe. If you're listening, please leave us a review. That's the biggest help you could do as far as helping us keep this going and in front of new people. And you know, if you're struggling, reach out, you know, talk to people and surround yourself with other people who are also struggling and working at this as well because you're the sum of the people you surround yourself with. So we'll see everybody next week. Cheers. Have a great night.