Hiring new people can be expensive, time-consuming, and unpredictable. But using DISC, no matter what your hiring process looks like, can help to eliminate at least one of those issues. When you know where you and your team are on the DISC personality spectrum, you'll have a better understanding of where a new hire needs to be to best accommodate their role and their place within your team. And while DISC is not always black and white, it's a solid starting point during the interviewing and hiring process. In this episode, we discuss our different reasons for using and evaluating the DISC profiles of new hires, in sales or other roles. If you're a sales manager or leader and your team hasn't taken DISC assessments yet, you might be amazed at how much things will improve when you know where everybody falls on the spectrum. And they'll have the opportunity to learn more about themselves, which is vital to their future success. No matter how big or small your team is, we can get assessments for everybody. Email us at assessment@salesthrowdown.com for more information. ✅ Sign up for our emails: https://www.salesthrowdown.com/ ✅ Connect with us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Salesthrowdown ✅ Check us out on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/salesthrowdown/ ✅ And keep up with us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/SalesThrowdown
Good to Great by Jim Collins
Range: Why Generalists Triumph in a Specialized World by David Epstein
Let's get ready to Throwdown.
Welcome to the show everybody. Today we are talking about DISC again, talking specifically around hiring because especially in sales, it's super easy to look awesome on a resume. Right? Especially if they have got that, hey, don't call my current employer because they don't know I'm looking kind of thing, right?
I'll be honest how that starts a whole nother conversation of how do you not sound like a salesman on a resume when you're applying for a sales position? Because really easy to do is win win win win win, like, come on, man. Like I need to know how you got through some downtime.
Absolutely. Yeah. But the whole point of this assessment, honestly, originally was to I think make hiring easier, right? I mean, I mean, I don't know the guy who created it, but I mean, that's kind of how I think about it.
I think it started off a long time ago because a lot of psychological evaluations you send your email you do that. You'd give them a free exam. I can't remember, an assessment, is that the word you're looking for? No, it was like it was it was an exam like a psychological, he answered, you know, 100 questions, I sent it to a clinical place and they literally said don't hire this person for that because the personality doesn't mix and then there was a bunch of spin offs after that right. And some of them went really into the weeds like, like DISC.
Yeah, for sure.
So when you say that you say DISC went into the weeds, I mean, just literally got into the breakdown of it all. Okay, I just broke it down better. I did not it not in a negative sense, but it got out there where it gets sticky and you're trying to decide, you know,
yeah, because it's like so called extrovert, introvert. Okay, great. But what do
you say to the subculture to an extrovert or you're right.
I am on that line. But there's a lot more to me than just that for sure.
Right. And you talk about this point all the time, right? You're only around a salesperson for a couple of hours right when you're the prospect, right? So when you're the hiring manager, right, and this person's nervous, right, they want to put on a good show they want this job or else they wouldn't be there. You don't know if you're talking to interview Clint, regular Clint, like weekend Clint, you know, and so, how do you get past that?
I'm probably a bad example.
Most of most of the time.
You get me.
In my world, here's what I've seen mostly is you're gonna, you know, have a certain feeling for the person who's interviewing. So if you're the interviewee, you're either coming in most of the time not being yourself one way or the other. Oh, yeah, you're either overcompensating one direction, right? Which, which is good. Yeah. But it's very readable, right to the other side, but
So is playing it cool.
But it has no meaning, right? I'm reading that you're being this way. But that's probably not who you really are. Because you'd be a damn fool to be that way. Cuz that's a little disruptive. So you as an employer, you start to try to pick and try to figure this out and it gets confusing is what I'm saying.
So, you've hired a lot of people, Al, through
Relative for small business or medium sized business. Ballpark? I have 22 employees now.
Now. But like historically?
Historically, I've carried 14, well as few as six a year, six to seven a year.
Such an I answer. Exactly, 172 to be exact.
Well, but I don't know how after 25 years, I mean, but but I will say I have the first employee I ever hired 20 something years 25 years ago, and the second employee I hired is now retired.
And she's hated him every day.
That's not true. My staff loves me.
Good old Norma.
I just wanted to talk to the I at the table.
So I do. I love providing jobs and they're part of my family and we've hired their family. It hurts me to fire somebody, I often say I don't fire anybody they fire themselves. But if I can find the right fit for my business because I don't have a whole lot of platitudes, or a lot of redundancy, I'm not like Clint where I've got a staff of 10 or 12 salespeople right, not anymore. I have one or two and I'm part of the one or two. And then I have ancillary staff, but there's very little redundancy. Everybody does a really key job. And I've said before, you know, I'm about a $6 million company right? I'm not ashamed to say that.
I've worked for Al for 11 years, he's fired me three times. And here I am.
That is not, I knew that was somehow, how did I know when we opened this conversation Nan was gonna get that dig in.
Do these mics come off the stand so that way Nannette can just drop it off the table.
Do not quit again.
They do not come off the stands, guys, so please don't drop the mic.
There's our producer. Don't wreck the crap, capital equipment. They're rentals. We're not a rockband, we cannot start beating up guitars and breaking shit.
Well we all know what personality he is.
He's a true businessman. Don't break the shit right
So, so we found DISC through like sales right? And you know, I didn't know anything about it and honestly whenever I was beginning to work with Geof and he was like okay you gotta go take a DISC assessment. I was like I don't need this to come in and work with you and sell with you and all this stuff and he goes if you don't do this, we're done. And it was such like a weird line because you know Geof, right, he's a very nice guy, and you know Geof a little bit but like he's not he's he's a super high I, right. So he's he can be more of an I than Al, right, which is kind of hard to fathom. But for him to pick that line and draw that line in the sand is not normal for I's right. So I was like,
We're always calling you go and give us another code cuz we need to interview now. Yes, I literally, we've had the last two hires we've had, and I say those two we hired the others we chose not to. And we made the best choice because everybody took a DISC assessment. And for the job we were looking for those people made the most amount of sense.
Okay, so let's talk about that very specifically. Because I have a different opinion on this, right? Because I don't I don't view the DISC assessment as like a black or white tool, right? You either fit it or you don't.
No. But if you couple it with your personal interaction with that interviewee, sure, okay. When you meet face to face, you hear their story, you talk that you ask the questions, they give you the feedback, then they take the DISC assessment. It matches what your premise would you think, you know, through your interview process.
You're doing it as like a check and balance to make sure that you're getting the real deal in the interview.
The opposite.
Hold on. Yes. Yes and No, because I know they're going to get outside of who they normally are. This shows me who they really are. And they they they correlate let me put it that way. So when I see somebody that's a lot of S/C types are in our industry. And when I know that that's balanced, it's usually a good fit for the positions we've thus far been looking for.
Right. So, a couple of questions, right, the last two roles that you hired for, what were they specifically?
One is kind of admin for our radiology group. Okay, so they got to deal with everything from doctors offices, to attorney's offices, insurance companies, that kind of position.
So did you have anything in mind about the kind of person you were looking for? Were were you like man, an S is going to be really good, or a C's really good or an I? Or were you just like, Hey, I just want to see how closely this person that I have had a conversation with is to their true self, or how'd you how'd you figure that out?
Both. I wanted somebody who first of all knew some of the parameters. So when we put out a request for applicants, it's usually this kind of these are the this is the skill set that you need. So they they had to qualify that way and have some healthcare exp- experience. And when they came in, I was looking for somebody that probably wasn't a D or an I, I was looking for somebody who was an S or a C, because there's a level of interaction between very similar personalities, because that's what they're gonna meet on the other end. Yeah. And they have to be dedicated to just the grind of the desk, the phone and the office.
So they got to like repetitive things and kind of in kind of enjoy their wheelhouse. Right. Clint has got the squinted eyes of someone who spent many long days in the sun. And you said earlier that that you think about it differently. How do you think about it?
Well, so for example, I think that depending on you know, first and foremost, like, what's the technical experience is required, right? If you're in the hiring process, do I have to have this checklist of experience and knowledge? Right, that's that's kind of step one. Right? Because you can't just hire any personality.
That's what, you know, and I reference that.
I disagree, but okay, we'll get there.
So exactly
Depending on how much time you have to train them, what your attitudes are, and how process driven you are.
Yes. So that's what I say is how much do you need of the resume? Block? stuff that's typical on there, right? That the experience the education, how much of that dooney because in my business, especially in sales, I'm hiring personality first, teaching the technical side later, because I believe I can do that. Yeah, I would agree with that. So and I would guess in sales, right? That personality to me really means everything right? Can the customers trust you? Can they get along with you? Can but then there's a point right? Can you convey the technical knowledge that they need you to convey to them or have a solution in place to bring somebody into that conversation right and do it to a point where they still trust you? Because that's that's a really tough probably in your guys's business, right? Because, you
Nan can attest to that.
you could you guys could probably get anybody to set a lunch meeting. Send a salesperson in there. But if they can explain what you guys do on the technical side, especially in medical and surgery, there's no way right. So or the personality that you hire allows them to set that meeting up with you guys that have the technical experience to get there. Right. So there that personality all matters. So recently I'm hiring I'm hiring position right now interviewing currently actually.
And didn't you just like wasted most of your sales force? Like I think I know why you're hiring.
Clint earned his nickname this week, I think.
Right. But a really important point. You did not hire those people. They were already in place. Oh, so that's a huge
I inherited every everybody. And it had nothing to do with but this person fills a need that they they didn't Yeah, right. So efficient. I'm all about efficiency, this person, which we never had, right, and I can get rid of,
So it's a new position. You didn't have anybody there, you kind of created the position. Now you look to a lot of unique individuals.
How did you go through the process of coming up with a requirements for the new position.
Well, that's where I'm geting to, right. So, I literally went to our HR manager and I said, this position that I'm looking at hiring is not a resume. It's not on paper, it's a personality hire in for HR,
How'd they wrap their mind around that?
Exactly. That's a tough thing, right? Because like you can't hire people on personality.
That's a look on her face and I do I know I'm kind of exclusively
And I said to be honest with you that's why I'm talking to you because I want to know the legalities of all of that. How do I do that right without setting people aside based on whether I like them or not, because right this is a good point. And and we're still kind of working through that. So she she's not quite on board not but what she made me do which is the right thing to do was made me put a job description together.
Yeah, absolutely. So now, look, John's got a hard on, but go ahead.
Well, here's the deal. I mean, if when you don't know where you're going any road works, right? And most people, if you're not doing some sort of assessment or something else, a long list, they see value with people that are like them. Right? So Clint is going to, I know, Clint talks about not getting along, not getting along with other D's, but he's gonna see value in another D type personality and left to their own devices. If you hire people that are like you, because you get along with him, and you're like, Man, you're like me, I'm good. So I gotta be able to trust you and it doesn't work. It doesn't work.
Until somebody says, Hey, I need you to do that. You're like, Oh, no, we're the same. Yeah.
Yeah, that was a.
Yeah. And it, to be honest with you, it's why I don't still work in a lot of places. And I work where I work currently. Because I saw that leadership.
You're the VP.
For every VP, there's a P.
Well, you're wrong. You're on the fast track to being a P, dude, you're not that old.
I agree with that. But the point of it is, is I still have to answer to somebody you know, everybody answers to somebody. Yeah. So you have to fit it doesn't matter what how great you might make it all the way up there and realize this is sucks I'd really go back because that guy is a dick.
You don't you don't know how I would like to be able to roll this thing back.
Yeah, I hear that all the time.
She made you go write a job description.
Write a job descriptions. So now like if those qualities, right, are in the job description, well, then you're hiring on that basis, which is a very...
Can I ask you a question? Is that job description, like the bare minimum? Or is that the wish list?
Uh, no, I go, Well, for this for this position. In general, it's kind of a bare minimum.
It has to be because you're not...
I don't think that people normally write job descriptions. As far as like the requirements, they must have five years experience and you must have this and this is good. Let's the golden applicant, you know, when you find it,
And then the question is, though, my question would be you have all this the golden ticket. Why are you unemployed?
Yeah. Or why are you looking to move?
Yeah, no, I mean, Because if you if you were there 15 years and you sold them out to come here and interview, how are you not gonna do the same to me in in a week or 10 years,
Particularly if they're,
That's a level of skepticism that I don't even have.
If they're living, or they're a company like for me if you worked for a bigger institution? Man, I'm peanuts. Why would you want to work for me? Yeah, now there's quality of life issues and things that I can offer the big corporations can't.
So that so that said that level of skepticism is super important when you're hiring right? Cuz you're gonna get the truth. And here's the deal. That level of skepticism is also important when you're just in a sales role. Right? So that way you don't get lied to or you get smiled and nodded at Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Clint, this is awesome. I can't wait to work with you. Right. So I so so that so that level of skepticism was gonna serve you in multiple areas. So if you don't have healthy levels of skepticism, on emotions, you're gonna get lied to right? A level of detachment, right? If we're gonna use a Jocko term in there. Yeah. But I think that that stuff is super important. So you created this thing, right? And it was the bare minimum.
Yeah, because in my mind, literally the job that I can do and, you know, kind of joke about this, but like I can, I can literally teach anybody to do this, I just can. Now whether you're going to be really efficient at it or not, that's a whole nother story,
or like it was, like it I want to stick around. Because that's what I'm looking for. I want somebody that's gonna enjoy the job that I'm providing sure with it,
but that's the personality side. That's why you have to match these two together. All right, so I know that I can teach the technical side if you've had basic computer skills, right? Those those terms like basic computer skills, and I literally mean as as basic as as it comes because I'm willing to put the training into whatever you don't have. Hmm, there's there's a different set of that's important. And so with this one I you know, we talked about a personnel and she said okay, she knows DISC, our HR manager, you know, she's like, well, what, what personality and I said, C/D, I want a C/D Wow, for this position that is easy to find, why? task driven, operate on their own, but also very, very data skilled, tracking, logging, but I also need to confront customers. And have hard conversations. Right? So I don't know.
It sounds like you're trying know, he's asking for himself a little bit that is, you know, you have a lot of data which really surprises me. I mean, you can talk fact you just described yourself.
Yeah, a little bit and I really, maybe that's why you need a mini me. Yeah. And, and I literally put this in the description well in not in but verbally like, this is my right hand, man. Oh, well, I need that person
So hold on guys. Did you hear that? When you know DISC and people start talking and you know who they are? Yeah. How quickly Was it easy to decide? You're just you when I said you want you and then you responded, I need a mini me. That's how this stuff works. When you sorta, John's rolling his eyes. When he gave the description of what he was looking for.
No, no, no, no, I'm not rolling my eyes at you. I'm just trying to think about if I if I agree with the fact that your right hand person should be the same. No,
I disagree. I agree with where you're rolling your eyes.
At that point you're making, you're you're creating a redundancy here. Sure, right. I don't want I don't need anyone else to do the stuff that I'm structure but because of your size, right? That's true.
Okay. You actually, he's working on scalability. Yeah.
Okay. But also at the same point, like I need a gap filler. So, right is like, if I hire a me, we're both really going to do well, the same things. I don't need the same thing.
How do you handle a you? Right? Because, you know, it'd be tough, right? But we all talk about the fact of like, D's are
Motivate, motivate, motivate. Win, win, win, like, those are the words though, right?
But I think D's get a bad rap in general. Yeah. In general.
Because they usually deserve it.
Ignorant ones do yeah. And so yeah, ignorant I's.
But here's the deal. I don't ever have
How dare you, that hurt, man. I thought we were friends.
No
I don't ever have to deal with a D lying to me. Right? I don't ever have to deal with a D smiling and nodding. Yes you do. No.
They will justify everything.
Do you really?
But but do you smile and nod with, when, when someone comes into your office...
Better than most.
I at least feel guilty, he like calls it like winning. Now, John, you're not that naive.
No, I'm that good I will say that yeah right because I'm gonna I'm gonna cut through all of this bs that he's gonna run on everybody else because my because my walls are up in my skepticism is high.
I get that but when you say that you completely tongue in cheek understand who this guy is over here.
Exactly right. Clint. The Clint isn't aware, where's my wallet, bandit, which makes it harder, harder to deal with him right because he's understanding about personalities. The average D is not okay. So the average D is going to be right is two because they can't help themselves. First of all, they have no tact they've got they've got no remorse.
I use that same game on a D as well.
Absolutely. So the unaware D with the amount of work that I put in I'm gonna get clarity right either it's a no or
we're gonna want to give it to you. He can't wait to get exactly
what easier to negative flip a script on Yeah. Then that then that personality, for sure. Well, for example
maybe C's because C's can't deal with things being wrong
So you spotted D that's money hungry right you talk about his bank account being low
or you ask a see how do you know this is right? Oh yeah, I got it now. Are you sure what you're saying makes sense? And tell me how that how that adds up
right when you say that to me, and that's a bad day for you. Right? Because because the thing is, is when you're dealing with a C, you have to assume that they've already done the research I agree. So I want you to justify when it when you challenge me like that. Yeah.
Do I put you on the defensive or am I, really, it brings my walls up, I don't mean to because sure a lot of times I try to just be stupid.
Here's the deal that works right when you show up and you're like, when you're like Have you ran the numbers on that? I'm gonna be like, yeah, here it is. Let me show it to you. This is what I need. Can you do it or not? But when you like blatantly challenged me, I'm like, are you sure you're correct on that? Screw this guy.
No, I guess I misspoke. Cuz A lot of times, I'm like, I don't understand this, and you go into overdrive to give me all the
that, that that keys me up. And you know, like, it's like putting the magic dollar in the jukebox, and you get unlimited plays, right? I'm gonna give you all the facts and all the data you need to like sell me, right, because that's how C's work.
I'm gonna I'm gonna you know, our, our controller and my company. I know not listen to this. So I'm not worried about it. But most of our meetings I it's funny, because it's like, when I need him information out of him. If I just like, hey, I need you to give me this. It's walls up like, hey, screw you, buddy. Like you didn't plan or prep this or give me my schedule.
Well, you have any data on this right?
Oh, no. Boy,
his question to me is why do you need that? You know, yeah, well,
well, because that's my office manager. Same way. I asked her a question and she She's like, Well, I'm not sure I need to check on that. I'm like, you just open the mail. How much is the deposit? And she's like, well, I don't know for sure. Let me go check. And why do you need to know that today? There's enough money in the bank for everything we're doing. Like Shut up and get back in the field.
And your your admin, we were kind of going back and forth, because you had an opinion about what she was. And Nannette had an opinion about what she was, and I had an opinion. Where'd she end up? I forgot.
She's a C/S. She got she's, yeah, slide where she's a C who slides to the S to save everybody. Because what happens is she runs all the data gets upset with me that you know about numbers. Yeah. But then says, Wait a second, my compassion says, here's how we work this out because I go nutso and I'd start saying, Yeah,
so let me finish. Sure. Yeah, go ahead. Sorry. So hiring earlier. I want to get this off. So we're talking about the gap filler. Yeah. So your mini me? Yeah. So I interviewed a C/D to a tee How'd it go? In the meeting in the in the exactly how a interview should go very to the point where you know answered all the questions perfectly
That's how to prep that's your interview that's not that's not Al's interview.
No, I'm saying this person, mine are pretty good but this personality was on point, you know, done homework I looked up your company and I saw that they do this and blah blah and I think it'd be really good if it was very, very formal and
How did you play it as as the D who likes to like lead the way.
I was an I, I put myself in an I trying to draw it out right just to
So you got drunk before the interview. That's not what management should be doing. Okay, so why did why did I get this why your management that was really cute. That's why your management.
Wait a minute, I'm in management. I can't drink I might as well go back to producing.
If I can't live the bohemian lifestyle. F that man I'm quitting.
Two minutes of an I.
You see it all the time, in the producer's office
two minutes of you
I think I think we'd all be uncomfortable. So so
So so I had my second.
We should do that for a show, we should all sit in different seats and try to be the other. The other people that would be it would be funny that nobody would watch it.
Nan gets to be Clint.
I could do that.
Who gets to be John? Oh, there's the hard one right there you me? I think I could be John, you could be me. Clearly, and I barely, I think,
I present as an I. Right. Good. I talked to people who have listened to the show, and they're like, you're not a C. And I'm like, you haven't seen me stressed out? Yeah, cuz that's the deal is when we're under stress, all these true true traits show up. I mean, when we're when we're not in stress environments, it's super easy to flex right? Once you know what you're doing and you've got some utility and some reps under your belt. But like when I'm stressed out, like I gotta go apologize to everybody, right? Like, like, I go to my family. I'm like, hey, stressed out. I'm in task mode. If I'm short. It's not a you. Don't ask me about it again.
How much apologizing does Clint do? No.
If you don't like it, you can leave.
Literally. Yeah, Nan, how much apologizing do you do?
So I could definitely be, I'm not answering you. I can be a D. I could do it.
You could you can do it. Show me your best D face.
We'll talk
Yes, yes, we can, look John's stressing.
It's making me uncomfortable, right. So, today on Friday the 13th that would have been awesome. So I would rock that vest so hard. I look amazing. And I love this. Because you're because your arms are always so warm and your torso is cold.
Don't get so much, don't get so much cold here or here, right in here.
You're just dying in the core, where all the real ATP productions going on.
Okay, hold on. If you're not watching this on YouTube, Clint is wearing one of these like vests that
I love it though.
all the all the not like a gay leather vest, this is like a
What's wrong with being gay.
Oh my goodness!
Did you just alienate a big portion of our popula- our listeners,
We're not talking about the fringe hanging off the back of this thing. It's like a Patagonia North Face style vest right that's very like hip and trendy. And you know, it doesn't really make a lot of sense but your torso is never cold, bro. Come on. What are you doing?
You should just wear sleeves and no, no, new fashion, fashion statement. I just sleeved. Yeah,
Dude, runway in Milan.
Fashion advice from any of you...
I'd like to see the vest without the shirt. That's what I would like to see.
Wow, it is Friday evening.
Do you mean Saturday's for Clint?
I got I got assless chaps too.
Gay cowboy here we go!
We'll be singing YMCA
Did where his cowboy hat tonight.
Hold on YMC, YMCA. Let's do it. No,
No, no. That's terrible.
That's the I, right there. That I needed it so bad.
Trying to create a party when there's nothing to do exactly.
And inviting everybody to do it and it's assuming that it's gonna be cool. They're coming. I told ya. Hey, it's not even my house. It's not my party but you should come, it's gonna be great.
Stop the madness. I throw a great party guys. These bitches don't even understand because they're never invited. That's true, nor will they be. Keep it up.
Keep it up, get back to hiring, right. We were talking about you were looking for your right hand person. So you're working with your HR person.
So my my rule of thumb is that if I'm hiring a personality, I need to get to get to know them out outside of work first.
So just go straight to Hooters
Are you serious? You got to go hang with them before you hire them.
I mean, I it worked out that I could do this. Oh god. I knew I had connections. Our kids went to school together and I said hey,
And I get that so, cuz I do that with some license people.
And so I said, Hey, you know You know, let's let's just go out and, uh, you know, have just a typical conversation of what I'm thinking and what, you know how you would gel there in the conversation when great.
Would they okay with that? Yeah, absolutely.
And then,
Who picked up the tab? Of course,
of course you
Well, I knew I just say Hey, guys, listen, hold on. We're teaching as we go along. That's fair.
You throw your credit card when you have reciprocity is such an important thing in these situations.
We need to have an episode on reciprocity? sales in sales etiquette, right?
That's for sure. So anyway, matched well, they're right. Same ideas, which is to the point of like, well of course.
Okay, right. Hold on. So let's dig into that a little bit. You said that you match. Well, how do you determine that?
It was just like you know, I say someone that's like, absolutely, like you could see the heartfelt answers, right. And then they would say something and I would say, exactly, that's exactly what I'm talking about. You get it.
I order salisbury steak, you order salisbury steak. Wow, how about those mushrooms, man gravy or yellow sweet brown gravy.
Or you say, oh, steak, huh that's trash. I got fish, you know? Yeah yeah cleanse
Clint's gotta win. You got the fish I got the first one I get fish with a shrimp.
So I actually got the best fish.
I was gonna say, they didn't say the best.
You get that one. You ordered off the menu. I went with the daily special.
I actually caught mine.
Brought it into the back door along with the wine you're drinking. Exactly.
So, anyway, so then I have a formal interview after this meeting, also went great.
So you have wait, hold on.
I's gonna say, that threw me too.
You have the informal meeting first and then you have a formal. You don't think you're setting yourself up for failure?
Did HR know about this?
No.
Okay, that's what I thought.
you're off the grid.
Nothing wrong with that.
It wasn't the
Clint, the Lone Wolf Man, so
That's rogue is hell
The deal was like, okay,
The deal is you're off the rails
But hey, he's a maverick.
No, but I don't disagree with that. I'm just saying how do you get away with that said?
I'm not my normal.
I would want the formal first.
I know that you would. But seriously, I know that that's that's how most people, people also so why'd you go that route because I wanted to see if it would mesh like personality wise, right because I just don't gonna get that in a formal setting in an interview room and this is the to the whole point of this conversation. I'm hiring for personality reasons, I want to match mesh that personality. So for example, if we're out to lunch, and the waiter doesn't bring back the right food, how do you react to that? Right? I want to see that. I just do. How do you react to that? I'm just gonna eat this shit. Yeah. I don't want to be I don't want to
I'll send it back.
No, I don't send anything back, unless it's spoiled. If it's not right, I make it right just on the plate, I scrape it off.
We're answering the same thing for very different reasons, because you already screwed up once, I'm not going to trust you again. And honestly, I don't ever want to see your face again. So I'm gonna eat this shit and probably give you a bigger tap or tip just to throw it in your face and walk out.
Whereas, why do you think Al doesn't do it? You said for two different reasons. Do you think it's because like he wants to be liked by, avoid confrontations? Yeah.
Oh, no. I call him out all the time. You like you personal you've got seen me order. I'm like really? Did you think that was what was going on? I mean, I challenge them that way more than I'm like, I can eat anything.
But see, that's the thing about an I, right is I can tell you to go screw yourself and you'll smile at me but you're right. I probably should. That's that's an I's natural ability to be able to do that. Yeah.
So and when I'm really frisky you get fucked on the tip. Weren't you a bellman? I said when I'm really frisky. That happens once a year and if it does, sorry, to be you, but most people get tipped really well, because I was a bellman.
Yeah. So I know quite a bit about DISC. We everybody up here knows a lot about it right? We probably not professionals at it.
Wait a second, we are. Yes. This is why we have the podcast. Seriously?
Probably some psychologists who know more.
We're probably not at that level right to to go beyond, we are, okay.
There's only one person at this table with a doctor in front of their name and he's a chiropractor.
This guy's got his head shot at Right. I mean, I've paid my dues. Nannette has rocked the sales world for as long as I've remember. And you know, more crap, that means nothing to me than anybody else. I know who else in each one of these quarters I'm going to well so well that
Warm and fuzzy.
I know so much crap, guys.
So the thing is, is that I wanted that because I thought it matched well for that for that job, right. And then what I was going to say is that I feel like I know DISC pretty well. And I know that there's you know different areas some D's have S traits, and D and an I, you have your secondary personality. Right.
And then with an interview, it's always weird. Yep. wonky, but it's always off anyway.
To the point, right is, is when you really get a true look at somebody in an uncomfortable stressful situation in the interview usually Is that right? Yeah. And if you're not stressed out about that tells you that you're you fall in another category all in itself right. So, so what I was going to say there is that I forgot that you could slide opposite directions across the spectrum. Those exist. What do you mean opposite? A C and an I? A D and an S, right? Because people can be that can be their primary and secondary. It's not often it's pretty rare, but it happens.
Well, but I think under stress, what you try to do is emulate or appease, right. So you're there needing a job, you got bills to pay. You're trying to reach to figure out what I want as the employer or the person interviewing all the assumptions in most of the time. It's, I need to not be me, because that's So because we're self loathing, right, we kind of beat ourselves up about things that are really our strengths. And we do more to hurt ourselves. So we want to project what we think that person is. And we usually match that to what we think we're not right. So we try to pretend to be somebody we're not to appease somebody, right? That we're trying to, you know, get this equation, not rocket science.
So what happens now? Do they come in, in an interview with HR as a final or, you...
No, I'm still interviewing so um,
At the bar back at the office. I'm confused.
Is there a round of each?
You cannot do that with a bunch of people.
Yes, he can, he's the VP. VP's do whatever the hell.
How much he drinks. He can hang on the bars for hours.
I'm saying, you have to choose.
well, so
like 5. I can't imagine you're gonna have 20 people. You're gonna,
So the second, well,
Oh, so you did this multiple times? That's what, Sorry, I'm slow.
A person in our company actually recommended somebody heard I was hiring this position and said hey, I actually know somebody that that's perfect perfect for you. And I kind of laughed and I'm like well how do you know you know, that D in me kind of comes out.
Already you're like like, screw you I'm not hiring your person.
and and so anyway like a week went by and he came back and he was like, Hey, did you ever look over their resume? I'm like wow, that's probably on my desk over there somewhere I'll get to it you know, but you're right like my walls go up yeah I'm attack because you gave me this
Yeah, get out and it's never as good as a person you're going to find.
So anyway, I after he leaves I'm like you know what i i should look at this and so I look at him I, oh shit. Tons of experience in this field exactly like experience on resume this perfect find. So I'm like all right. Well, you know, I got to do my due diligence. And let's get through this. So I'm on you know, I'm still got my walls up a little bit.
Can I ask a question? When you're looking at the resume? Are you getting any feel for their DISC?
Yeah, absolutely.
So what did you think that they were?
So right off the bat? I said D okay, D/I/
Were they a D/I?
What was their opening statement? Do they tell you how good they were at something? No, no, they do. I've seen those resumes. It was amazing at
objective to get a job. So it was very, objectives are stupid on resumes in my opinion.
I believe, I believe this person's was very task driven, like, I believe statements, right? So that puts it in one. If you're talking to somebody that puts it in the category, which would typically be Nan on paper, that's a commitment. Right? And that falls back to the D of confidence. Right?
Well, gut driven.
I believe, like, I believe I can do whatever the hell
I didn't do these things, but I believe that I can kind of thing
it's not to believe in his like hopes and dreams believe, it's the belief that I have this inner fortitude to do this job. Sure. So anyway, right off the bat, like screams D like, Okay, and then there's a call it a playful format. That's not very it's not formal. It's Yeah, it's kind of, and D's don't really do that. Nope. Absolutely not and C's definitely don't.
No, not at all, we're not funny. So like, but this , our producer is like, furiously shaking his head about the fact I'm not funny. So although I'm the funniest guy he knows.
So the funny thing is is like, instantly my head I think this is a D/I right? And so anyway bring her in like a just a call your friend tell her Monday at two o'clock. Let's let's just talk to her. So she comes in and instantly she's like, Hey, I I looked you up. I saw that you had a podcast. See that you guys talk about DISC a lot. I actually have my DISC personality.
Get out of here. Right then, right there! Dropped it on you.
And you were like, here's all the money. You can just have all of it.
Because I still, still walls are up. So she Oh yeah, it was so I look at it. I'm like this isn't you? I'm talking to you two minutes. But this isn't right. This isn't you? This says you are a. Oh, but but I was but John I was right. This girl, this girl is an I/C all day long.
How do you how do you know that when you're looking at her assessment? Hey, because here's the deal. A good DISC assessment is really hard to gain.
Wasn't a good one.
It was one of the free ones? Okay, well that's, that's fair.
And I said that's that they can only put you on one side. I don't even and I explained it to her we had it were 45 minutes in a conference room. We talked mostly about this personality assessment.
So when she pulls that out, do you have a moment of like excitement of like, Yeah, I got it. or, or, or does that D mentality of like, No, I know what you are.
I'm feeling gamed at that point.
That's it. Why are you gaming me?
Exactly, there's hold on. But there's a certain level of appreciation. There's some sort of tribe. All right, maybe this will work. So we got some more questions.
The test of it will be, yeah, if she's truly interested in what I was talking about, right. Well, she listened. That's that's an interesting point. But, but by the time the interview is over, and it's Look, I'd really before one before you ever thought about getting on here, you're doing a DISC assessment, just so you know, like it really in depth one. And she's like, Oh, I'm all for that. I'd love to know more about myself. And that was a that was your like, yeah, that's a high point.
Wait a second. Was that a kiss? Sure. And
it wasn't it was a genuine.
Did you feel that that was genuine? I would say the same thing first. Oh, thank you sir. For beat me up on the on the what I presented. I so want to learn more about the bullshit you need to know.
It was a very genuine comment to she gets the reasons why we do this in this industry. Right. Sure. And sales that the personality is not just important for everybody else to get along with me. It's to understand myself. And she did that genuine, very genuine, okay. And I was like, man, okay, well, this is going to be part of it. But I'm telling you, you're an I/C? She's like, what was that? I/C? That's a random, but it's perfect. And when I was done interviewing her, I switched my whole mentality of I've got to have an I in there and I have to have C in there.
Yeah, I mean if there's any kind of account management then throwing an I to a C is gonna be pretty legit because they because you know I's don't meet strangers right like everyone's best friend they're gonna have really good you know rapport, trust.
The way this person talked about getting to know customers and gaining trust and and being a salesperson and then also talk about how to track all that data in the same conversation. Yeah, I mean, you just don't find that.
You don't, I was just say that's unique as hell.
It's very it's very unique mix, right? Because like, I'm a C/D who presents as an I at work right but I'm not naturally a C/I right because on the weekends I don't really want to go out and socialize because I've exhausted all those batteries throughout the week doing all the networking and you know, stuff that I do. That's really interesting. So so what's your next step with this person?
So to be honest with you, I kind of have my mind made up right?
So you're already game on with this person?
I am timings not right. So I'm waiting for my own organization to mature to kinda Okay, let's let's fit this person in here.
Can I ask you kind of a new say? None of your business? What are you paying this person? What kind of salary is this this job? Yeah, you ballpark it, you can give me a range. What is this person gonna make?
So let me I get stuck. So I guess I can't answer this question. But what I will tell you is this it is lower than six figures, but it's at the upper echelon of that. Okay, is there
Whoa, is there potential to that's a lot higher than I thought higher than I thought it was.
I was thinking like 30 to 40 grand.
I always think it 50, 50 to 60.
Yeah. And there's a so and plus that I'm also incorporating the in the description of can add commissions, there's some steps.
They can take some some money off
So, question, genuine question, because I'm genuinely curious. What makes this Right, because when when I hear what you said close to six figures, right? I'm making 75. Right? And so, what makes us a 75 versus a $40,000 spot for you specifically, um,
because I get to, I get to comb through people a little bit more to justify why I hired this person. Because if I put it if I put the lower in there, which it could be, yeah, I'm gonna get I think I'm gonna get the lower end people and people are gonna, in my organization, leadership, decision wise, they're gonna say jump that person because it can save us a dime.
Does that make sense? Yeah, though, right hearing you correctly, you're very much there's a book called Good to Great. And I cannot remember what the what the author's name is, but we'll put it in the show notes and it talks about having the right people in the right seats on the bus to get to where you want to go.
I think that I'm not developing a team because I have a need to fill. I'm developing a team that I can grow. Yeah, over a five year plan.
Good for you. So that's awesome. I don't think that most D's, okay, and man I tried very hard not to disparage D's right because I've got a I've got a lot in common with the personnel types and C's awareness buddy. C's when they're really confident in what they do they look like these right? I've had a lot of people I know especially in the martial arts, you know, school, right? We're like, I'm really confident and I know my stuff. I should
Can I tell you the difference. To be honest with you. I know the difference. What is it? The ability to continually fight even though you know you're wrong slides to the D. Oh, for sure. You will stop.
Yeah, I was gonna say she will stop a chokehold, he'll kill the person. Yeah. Are you to say, Have you learned your lesson? He says You shouldn't have challenged me. Here's your lesson. You go to the grave.
I think about it as a like I have a lot of opinions but they're loosely held whenever you show up with like facts. And I'm willing to give up my facts and make a change when you when you present data. Don't bring opinions or like how you feel about it because like that doesn't resolve with me at all. But I'm capable of changing my mind. Whereas I think that whenever Clint I don't know if this is derogatory now but but Clint can be like a dog with a bone you know and sometimes right like like it's it's you know my ways the highway and I don't care, you know.
There's, there is a way to present that to you and it's I call it the proven wrong prove me wrong theory, that's fair. So I can absolutely
You sound like you have the same same a little bit yes sir
So I can corner a C that is like you're not getting past this wall without the data right I can say okay well I have some opinions and I have some things I think is right and and, and frankly like I peed on a wall once. But the thing the thing is is like in a leadership position, it's like Frankly, I I think I'm right so prove me wrong, right that's fine to a C, you're like Challenge accepted.
The same thing Show me your data. I'll show you mine. And here's the thing
is prove me like a poker game. I'm all in. here's, here's my thing.
This is it. And I've been running this probably for about six or seven months with the new team, like getting getting involved with my new company is prove me wrong. And if you do we all win. Oh,
yeah, that's I think everybody at this table will accept the fact that our we understand our personalities and the weaknesses that they present. And if you can challenge us to who we are, we'll concede, yeah, you won the game.
That's, I talked about this all the time. Because I think this is super important. C's are typically there. There's not a lot of ego there. Right. So when they come across as being like super ego driven and really tied to something, it's because they've done research, and they've gotten numbers and facts and everything else, you know, and so it's kind of like, I just finished this book. It's called Range and I can't remember the name of the author. I'm terrible with others tonight, but it talks about this sign that that that they hang up in NASA, right. "In God We Trust, everyone else bring data." Yeah. And that's how I view kind of everything. If you don't have data, I don't believe you.
And this drives the point home that even as an I, I appreciate data. I don't go collect it. Yeah, but I read it. And I understand it. And when I need to speak with some kind of authority because I go in and sell off of technical data, sure. I, I will pick up the phone and talk to the technician, the guy who developed the Find me the guy who knows this stuff and can explain it to me. So I can turn around and use that data to close a sale or answer a question. So I ideally understand that you can go to people across the aisle from you.
Absolutely, and you're slamming, you're slamming home a point to this whole conversation, which is hiring on DISC personality. Right, right. What you just said is exactly why you should if you're in the hiring position, you should hire a counterpart to your lack of skills right?
Exactly, offset your weaknesses.
So, so and you alluded to that which is don't hired your mirror image.
Which is funny because if I need anybody, it's not an I, I can play that game very easy. It's not a C, I can get involved in that because I'll set goals, task driven in my head to winding the data. But the thing is what I can't do is have compassion. That stretches I just don't, right. I don't like your dog died, get over it shit, Jesus.
I mean, you know, you move. So when you say Hold on, hold on gun, this is gonna really kind of clear out like, how a D operates? Right? We have spent a lot of time together, right, formulating the show? What are we gonna talk about? What are the topics? You know, we were kind of hanging out a lot before the show started. And then Clint moved to Houston for this new role. How'd that hurt you? It didn't really hurt me. But like we had a conversation a couple weeks ago, right? I was going to Lowe's and and he called me on a whim and we were kind of catching up and I was like, man, I miss you. He's like, he's like, I don't give a shit about you. And it's kind of like
I meant that. I mean, not in a shitty way.
Yeah. Oh, he's just he's just completely honest for John. He's not People driven
Alright, so let's say
I was about to i'm gonna i'm going to tie into that. Yes he is but it is such a tight concentric circle. It probably starts with immediate family.
No, not even. That doesn't mean shit.
Well I'm meaning like your children.
Marines, yeah? There's some terrible Marines though bro, come on, like let's be honest.
I didn't say all of them.
Okay, but my point is he has it it's just such a tighter knit. So he needs less of that commitment and less of that to stimulate and fill that void in his brain and his limbic system but here's
But here's the deal because Clint and I have had, I've had some conversations and before you at me, right, I was in the Army and I know there's some terrible Army people as well. Right so every service has got some high performers and low performers.
To your comment earlier, the Marines are only going to agree with you. There's some terrible Marines. Yeah, we fucking are.
Um, but so yeah, there's there's good and bad on on all sides of like everything whether it's DISC or military. Whatever else right? Just because you're part of a group, that doesn't mean you necessarily carry all the covenants that are part of that group, right? so terrible people in every section of everything, so. I agree. I've totally forgot my second point because I got totally derailed by something Clint said.
Well, I hate that you were hurt by
No, I wasn't hurt because because here's the deal. Like, I know that that is Clint being playful with me. Right? Because if he didn't feel like he can be playful with me, he would lie and be like, be like, Yeah, man, I've been thinking about you too. And I was not thinking about me. Other things on his plate right now.
We hate the ones we love. Of course, right? Like
Like you guys are in love. That's all I gotta say. Nan agrees with me.
I love I give it I give the most shit to the people that I care about the most because it's like they're gonna handle it. Yeah, exactly. Right and like stop with your man love. I'm here to make it better. But that's how I think about it.
So I will tell you this. In my world I need I need Nan for that moral compass, right? I agree with that. Like, you know, she's not gonna she's not gonna stand in front of me and say, you cannot do this without going through me. It's it's more of Oh, yes, she will something Am I right? Sometimes we push her to the extreme.
Exactly. Now, having said that, I don't think you recognize because we know each other so well.
The thing is, is like, the 90% of the time, right? The 80%. And in Nan's extra life, she's gonna stand there and give you guidance. I'm just going to make you think about that shit, right? So that when you do screw up and you do have all this stuff, you have that to kind of recollect back and learn from but you need your opposite
um, but what I'm saying is in people out there listening recognize this because this is the slide that D's do, knowing that they don't have what an S has yet but they can appreciate it and you just made that comment and you went to Nan not to John or not to, you probably love me more times than not absolutely, silly bitch. But anyway, the point is, is that you recognize there's where you don't work very well, right? Where you can kind of get in the weeds because you don't do enough.
That's the awareness.
And so you reach across and you say, if I could put somebody like that on my team, or somehow connect to that, it would add benefit to what I do. And it would, I would prosper from it, it would make sense in my own brain is not me bending over to like, you know, amid a weakness, you just fill a gap is what you do.
So, so this is, step 1 out of 10, right, you you find your your adverse, right, and you say, obviously, you know, in your own head, you say I need you because you're the opposite of me and I need to fill that gap. Now. There is a ton of upfront expectations that you have to set with that person to say, Oh my god, yeah, I don't I don't I don't think that's normal for everybody. You know you kind of you kind of say like oh shit well no kidding, but like I really don't
You do that too though. I do what? You like slide to like you when you say the I, that I comes with serious expectations that maybe a lot of I's couldn't accomplish. It's specific it's dedicated your conversation
I understand what? is a very specific question, so go ahead.
Well what I'm saying is you you see the I as a means to an end right whereas I's are just I's you
You being an I has been put in your data calculations.
It has, because you reach out for a reason. I reach out just because, I don't do it because you like to go to the to he does he does uh
so but so it's a fine line, right because because I wanted to argue at this point, but I sat and thought for a second while he was
Let me give you a scenario, let me give you this. If you go to a networking event and you know there's no way to close any deals here. Are you gonna stay there and socialize till midnight?
Oh, I have a mission. right
because you I've been on that mission. Will you introduce me to everybody in the room? Yeah. for a reason.
But what if, you know in two minutes to that place that you know, this isn't I shouldn't be here.
Ah, so this becomes for for me very specifically this becomes very important because I have a goal when I go to a networking thing right in the goal differs depending upon what the group is right if I don't know anybody there, awesome. I'm looking for two cards, right? I want two cards, and then I can leave, right because I want to go home to my family, right? I'm gonna go home and hang out my kid. I love her to death and everything else. I but when I don't have a plan, I feel obligated to hang out until it's over. Right? And that's not a great spot for me.
That's not great for anybody.
I'm out in two seconds.
Well, and that's the difference because because my thing when I'm networking, it falls into three different categories. You're either a power networker, and you know everybody in town and I'm gonna figure that out pretty quick. And then I want to know you and stick on you like glue because you know everybody in the room already. You're a center of influence or COI, meaning that we deal with the same kinds of people but you're not a direct competitor. So it makes sense for me to spend a lot of time with you, because there's gonna be a lot of referrals back and forth, or you're a direct client. Those are the, I'm looking for two cards that fall into one of those three categories. And as soon as I have those cards, I can leave if I want to, if it's really awesome and fun, then I'll hang out, but when I don't have that goal, I'm just like, wandering around, of like, hey, let's drink more, right? Because
But when you say that to me, I'm like, I love that concept. I understand it. I just have a hard time implementing. Oh, I have, because like there's a bar there's alcohol,
I drive. I drive everybody crazy because I think about everything like this, right? If you're gonna go buy a car, what's the minimum you want to pay? What's the maximum you want to pay? And are you willing to pay extra for like certain features? Like I think through this before I go talk to anybody with I mean, hoodie, I mean, hoodies to cars. I mean, it's this is how I think about I mean, it's so crazy because I
It doesn't have a hood.
Well, no hoodies, right, because I did the same thing with a hoodie. But the thing is, is like nope, I love I love our conversation so much because it really shows me like...
Our conversation? Or y'all's?
I mean, you've been incredibly quiet tonight right? And you know we'll get to that in a second.
When I'm finished, well but woman.
You know we do we do these interviews or these segments in batches right so because you know, Clint's in Houston and it's a pain in the ass to get up here I'm sure and and so we try to make it as easy as possible. And it's always validating whenever we come in we meet because I'm like, Oh, yeah, you guys are all radically different than I am. And that's not a bad thing. But if you're not around that stuff constantly, right? If you build a vacuum around people who are just like you, man, like, I can't imagine anything more dull.
or limiting, right? Yes. Good word. Yes. You're staying in this little box.
Which bothers me.
Yeah, of course it is, your vocabulary sucks.
You got you got a better word than me.
He's more well read.
I'm a wordsmith. Wordsmith.
Hey, I've got an interesting question. Nan, if you were if you were hiring...
Are you only asking me this because?
You hadn't talked. No No No I've been waiting for him to shut the hell up so. If you if you're in a hiring position you had to hire a like your first salesperson right? And that that first interview you did was a high corner 98% D, but he had a resume
D's are my favorite.
Okay, so So I'd like to hear that right
God there's so many jokes My head hurts right now.
You're walking right into it.
I don't even know if we could like post this. This is crazy. D's are her favorite. Can we change the intro Nannette Ds are my favorite Fallman? Okay, sorry, continue.
Do you want to switch cups? Team D. By the way, that's not what Team D means.
You know what, are you all right? Nan's a little broke up, so I'll speak for a minute.
Apparently, Nan also never left the seventh grade locker room.
I'm telling you, I tell you right now, that's my theory.
Hashtag Team D just went viral.
Fight it as hard as you will.
No, I truly believe you do have to you work better with your opposite. Oh my gosh, I have tears.
You're welcome.
Okay, wait, I'm not going.
Want me to finish this for you?
Stop the madness!
But how do you how do you deal with all the the the things that are gonna come up, all the D's? Well yeah, how are you gonna deal with that D-ness? Good Lord can we get out of the gutter? So how do you deal with the fact that there's so radically different than you you know that? Because Because look right if you try to coach Clint, right, let's say you've hired Clint. does an S
Does an S ever coach a D?
now does I have to but I say
they have to, they have to control and modify.
She raised her hand.
I need to start raising my hand. No. What I wanted to say is that Clint remember the first time we sat down and talked we were
It was magical.
Look at this, this has got to quit this, no this is wrong on so many levels..
It was so good because he was...
That's the only time Clint's ever been told that no, normally normally it's like I'm glad you made that about you.
Surprise some people with the I is the voice of reason. Wow, there's the sexual tension just went through the roof and I had nothing to do with any of it.
It's all about matching and mirroring.
And I, Nan, Clint is owning you girl, you need to shake this off.
That's pretty typical.
Clint. All I
Shake this off, girl, get in the game.
Would you be quiet. Okay Clint, let's
We have a flustered S right here on YouTube you guys gotta hear it. You got to see the video.
I don't know what time stamp it is here.
Every single
More like 40 shades of red.
Okay, so let's get back to, what was the original
Remember, he doesn't remember,
My heart is fluttering so hard.
C's gonna catch you up right. You're making your first hire right? Who do you Who do you want to hire for a sale other than Clint.
If you can't hire Clint, who do you hire?
I'm gonna talk. Okay? It's just what we've talked about all evening. You want the opposite because that then you have the perfect little formula. If you hire one person, that's exactly like you, then you just have. And I think that's arguing with what you said about your hire. So, you know, I don't want to
Don't be a politician.
You're allowed to have your opinion.
No, no, I agree with that. I mean, you really have to, you have to find the things that don't work in you. And you either fix yourself, which is really hard to do. Yeah, just overall clear about that, right? That takes years and years of training and failure, right.
Or better yet, if you've had some success, then it's harder to change because you've just gotten into being you.
Hate it, love it, do what you will with this, but, you know, I, I, that's kind of the Trump factor, right? Hire, hire people to do this. Yeah. You know, I'm but I'm serious to the point like, I'm, I'm not, I can't go do a bazillion jobs. So you got to hire the people that fit those jobs do that for you to make money. I just think that's part of the equation.
That's fair. Let's Throwdown. Paul, team P, Throwdown. Man. That's why he gets he gets paid the big bucks. Dude, seriously,
Dude, seriously. Gets paid like $600 an hour to hit that freakin button. Pt it on my iPhone bro. I'll do it.
Clint, Team D, for hiring with DISC.
Look what you got. Yeah, this kind of went off the rails. But I'll tell you this, I think that it's really important to look at the skill set that you need. really evaluate that, right? If these technical things matter, like 100% have to be there. You have to do that first but then DISC personality or any personality training, just looking at somebody talking to them, getting along with them speaking the same language is a resume separator. Right? That's what this tool is. It is not a 100% hire basis, but neither is a resume. I don't think you should hire that way. I think you should hire people to fit in your team. So for me, I use DISC as just simply that, a resume separator.
Okay, Al, team I?
I completely agree because I do have to sit, Throwdown bro, let him talk. In the same shoes. So I second that, it's a it's a separator. It's a clarifier. I mean, we hear their words now we see what they look like on paper outside of their resume. Mm hmm. And we match those three factors together, the resume that they gave me with their skill set, who they were as we spoke face to face, and then DISC tends to tie both of those together or expose deficiencies on on on their paper and in the personality.
All right, Nannette, Team S or healthcare, whichever one you want to talk about?
Well, a bit redundant, but the same thing I think you have and if you want to succeed in business, you need to be able to work with every day you need to know how to work with D's even I's, S's, and C's I you need the whole team. You know, it's the, you know, in Christianity, we talk about the body you need the whole body. Well, I think you need the whole DISC. I think it really is vital. Okay. To succeed. Team C?
For team C, for sales roles, specifically, I don't think that DISC is a black or white deal, right? Everybody brings their own crap to the table, right? I mean, I'm gonna be very, very strong in certain things, and I'm gonna be very, very weak and others and those those segments changed depending if it's a D, an I, an S or C as we go around the table. So because here's the deal anyone who runs me through a DISC assessment and they're just looking at as like a pass or fail kind of thing, no one's gonna hire me, right? But I think you all three know me and know what I'm like, good at and capable of doing and what kind of numbers I can put up, right? So it's not that black or white. Now, the thing that you need to know about is that if you're going to use this kind of assessment, you need to have some base level knowledge about how these things show up in the roles that you're trying to hire for. I think in other roles, it's a little bit easier, it's a little bit more black or white. And I'm totally open to being wrong about that. But I think if sales very specifically and this might be a bias about like my own performance is that I want to talk about, you're going to be really, really strong here. You're going to struggle here, how are we going to handle that whenever you struggled in these certain situations, because, you know, Clint is not going to be super good at, you know, taking the fall if something goes bad, right. And sometimes that's necessary, you know, the I is not going to be super great about holding people accountable to the agreements that they make, the S is the same way. The C is willing to just die on any hill that they feel is, you know, I'm right and you're wrong kind of thing, right? And so because of those things, those those dynamics show up differently. So I don't look at it as like a black or white assessment. I'm like, cool, here's where you're gonna be really, really good. Here's we're going to struggle. How should we handle these kinds of things, right to make it more collaborative, because I think that hiring is very collaborative movement or moment in time. And I think when you're hiring a salesperson, you got to you got to understand where they're going to struggle, and be able to build accountability and processes around those things where they're going to be weak so that way, it's not yes or no. Right, because once again, right if if if it was just pure DISC, I wouldn't be here at this table, I wouldn't be successful. Like, you know, when when I got my DISC assessment back, the guy who ran it on me right and talked about it with me and with Geof, who kind of took a shot on me after Al was like, Hey, I don't know if this guy's gonna be successful or not. That doesn't mean that I wasn't successful, it just means that you got to dig a little bit harder to figure out the intrinsic motivation, what's going to keep them going and things like this. And I think you can find that whenever you dig hard enough. So this is not meant to be a black or white kind of thing. As far as hiring as far as I'm concerned, right? You got to understand what parts of the role are going to be strong and easy and what parts are going to be hard and how how you figure that out. So for me personally, I kind of take a different approach. And it's probably very personal because I am not a normal sales guy. Right. So kind of my opinion for Team C, and really just for people in general, right? People can adapt Right, like, like my DISC has changed very significantly from 2012. When I took it the first time to like when I took it, the last time I took it, I shifted around and moved based upon what was necessary in the roles that I meant. Everybody else is going to do the same thing as well. So don't look at it as a black or white thing, but figure out, you're gonna suck at this.
But it is an it is a snapshot in time. Absolutely. That person is now, not that people can't change or not that people don't evolve. Evolution tends to be about a decade process in our lives, for sure. 20s to 30s 30s to 40s, 40s to 50s. I know and I've lived it.
And I remember very clearly right, I worked for Apple for 18 months, and then I left I decided I didn't want to be in medical devices anymore. But I still saw Al all the time that martial arts classes and everything else and I was coming up to me like, Man, you're different. Like, like, what is made you different? And it's like all of this stuff. And you know, he was like, cool. I want to learn more about that. Yeah. And that's why I got involved. Yeah, that's how we ended up here at this table talking about these kinds of things. But none of that would have happened if certain, right?
Well, I will tell you this, none of that would have happened if you had stayed in the same place, for sure. In and I had stayed, we evolve.
Because because I came back and I was like, Hey, I think there's some good stuff over here. And you said the same thing that I'd been thinking before I'd gone through the process right around like, Hey, I don't think we need that. I just think we need more time. And we need more doors, right, which is kind of where salespeople fall, right? super easy to lie to yourself as a salesperson. I'm not saying that Al does that more than anybody else. But it's super easy to like, kind of hide your head in the sand around your numbers and your close rate and your hit rate as Clint talks about so you got to be super honest with yourself. And if you're not successful, go figure it out. Like start with an assessment and go find a coach. Go find someone to work with who's going to be able to like help you this with this stuff. Most companies treat sales training as product training, product training is the easy part. Yeah, sales training is the hard part. How do you have good conversations? How do you ask Questions? How do you move somebody through or out? Right? And how do you not let that bog you down and keep you from like, moving forward? That's the hard stuff, arguably way harder than this screw does this and this screw does this. And this is where you use this. And this is where I use that. I mean, I mean shit, you could almost walk into an OR with like a clipboard, right? If you're really, really smooth and like I hadn't like have all that information.
You can do a surgery over the phone, I can do one of them. But you can't sell a product line to a doctor. Right? without some product knowledge and then rapport that you build and you sell into.
Yeah, I would argue the soft skills involved in selling are way harder than the product knowledge. Right. And I don't think I don't think enough companies put enough value on the soft skills.
Well, it's the science versus the art like I've said.
Absolutely right for sure. Awesome.
Alright everybody, we're gonna wrap up.
And delete a lot of that.
We don't we don't censor ourselves here, so you're getting the real deal, kills or Nan's giggling Yeah, this is the real deal. Right Paul doesn't let us edit because he doesn't like to edit because he's lazy. And that's fine. Clint being a dick. This is the real deal. We edit nothing. This is the real this is like, pure at the moment in the conversation. So if you're listening to this, and you've been listening for a while, you should feel that you should notice a difference between how Clint communicates, and Al and Nannette and myself right as the C personality type. And that's not a bad thing, right? Just like when you're talking to prospects, they're going to be in different sections themselves. You got to be able to shift and move and give them what they need, or else you're never getting a yes. So if you guys are following, please follow us on social media. If you leave a review, we'll give you a shout out. So please do. If you know anybody else in sales and they're struggling, they don't know where they are. Please share this with them. And follow us on social media. Everything is at sales throwdown if you have not taken one of these assessments and you don't want to go down the path of like Clint was talking about earlier doing one of these free ones online. We have them. We can Either just do through the assessment and you get your results. It's about 36 pages, or we have another level to where one of us will hop on the phone with you and go over your results with you about like, Hey, here's where you're gonna struggle, here's where you're gonna be good. So if you're, if you're interested in that, if you know anybody else, please share this with them. If you want to do the assessment, email us assessment@salesthrowdown.com. If you want us to come sit in on your sales meeting or talk to your team about this kind of stuff, please reach out.
And let me add to this if you take an assessment, and you'd like to talk personally with any one of us, for sure, if you connect with somebody more than anybody else, put that in in in some of the texts that you're putting out there, and we'll gladly get on the phone with you. You know, it won't be a long interview, but we'll talk and we'll answer any question.
Yeah, right. It's about 90 minutes. You know, we're gonna go over the assessment with you. We're gonna talk about where you're weak and where you're strong where your motivators and demotivators are so that way you've got some knowledge. And if you want to do that with the person in your corner, let us know we're totally down to do that. I do kind of the majority of them but I've got the most time out of the three of us here are the four of us here at the table. But, you know, if you're on team I, and you think you know that and you take the assessment and you want to talk to Al, let us know, we will put Al on the phone with you and you guys can tell stories and not get anything else accomplished.
Do you want to outpace the rest of this crew? Give me a shout.
Yeah. And almost on the same token, like if you think you're a high D, right? And you say this is bullshit, I don't need to do this. I would challenge the conversation with you, between myself to say, here, here's what I've gotten from it and gained and nobody needs to know. Use this as a tool to listen to this. Use it as a tool to manipulate the shit out of everybody else. It's fun.
Yeah, it's fun. All right. We'll see. We'll see everybody next time. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see everybody soon. Cheers.